Eliot Jackson, Santa Cruz Bikes, and racism in our community

i homepaged this. thank you for creating this post. i don't go on insta or social media outside of posting bike stuff. i hadn't seen eliot's video. so POWERFUL. thank you, eliot. 2:16pm - just FYI, i changed the homepage title to only have eliot's name in there. his video and words have the power of first-hand, individual, direct experience. his courage to post it at all is commendable beyond words.

thanks all of you guys. so glad to see these posts, and for you to put em on the site.

Thank you for posting and amplifying this!

In this context, there are two other brands who should share the early limelight, Specialized and SRAM. They both posted clear messages expressing their support for the current movements, knowing full well that they would antagonize a portion of their followers/customers (good riddance, I say!):

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Cycling has a problem with race. For decades, cycling has been a walled garden of exclusion, from the community to the lack of representation to the marketing—you name it. We’re owning that we’ve been part of that problem, and with the utmost humility, we’re acknowledging that we need to work harder at being part of its solution. We aren’t looking for plaudits, and we’re not here to signal our outrage. As human beings, like yourselves, we’re deeply hurt and saddened, and we’re declaring our commitment to learning and progressing this sport and culture forward to where it deserves to be. We don’t have all the answers, we don’t even know all the problems, but we’re listening today and acting in tandem with you tomorrow. Tell us how we can be better…we’re listening. ⁠ ⁠ This is just an acknowledgement, not the work. Together We Win. #blacklivesmatter

A post shared by Specialized Bicycle Components (@iamspecialized) on May 31, 2020 at 12:01pm PDT

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Bicycles should represent freedom. If all people can’t travel the streets safely without fear of discrimination and violence that freedom means nothing. SRAM believes in inclusivity. What happened to George Floyd was a horrible and tragic injustice. We know we need to do more. We will be reflecting, listening and learning. We will look for ways to do better in our personal communities, with the cycling community and with the largest part of the population that is yet to become a cyclist. #blacklivesmatter art by @notchas

A post shared by SRAM MTB (@srammtb) on May 31, 2020 at 4:54pm PDT

Reading through the comments of these posts is very enlightening, and helps us realize the depth of the issues at hand. If a person is offended by the simple message contained in these posts, that tells you every thing you need to know about them. They are more than part of the problem - they are the problem.

All power to Eliott.

Like he says "I don't see colour" is just a way of people letting their selves off the hook from having to confront the real consequences that societal structures have.

I've often looked around at races and thought to myself how crazily homogeneous mountain biking is in terms of race, gender and class.

Absolute solidarity

alloutprodux wrote:

thanks all of you guys. so glad to see these posts, and for you to put em on the site.

Thank you Theo for your work to create some diversity in the mtb media world. I always thought it was cool that you showed riders, racers, and trails that weren't mainstream. Please let us, the community, know what we can do to continue to support your work and what kind of assistance you think might be able to help bridge this divide.

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

Mwood wrote:

Thank you Theo for your work to create some diversity in the mtb media world. I always thought it was cool that you showed riders, racers, and trails that weren't mainstream. Please let us, the community, know what we can do to continue to support your work and what kind of assistance you think might be able to help bridge this divide.

Thanks alot man, I appreciate it. Yeah I've always come from an urban perspective, and have always thought that was lacking in the mtb world (which isn't surprising given the name!), and with that the music, flavor & multiculturalism that comes with it. The bay area (as you well know) is so diverse too that I think it's easier here to try and understand other people's experiences from different backgrounds, whether its racial, economic, what have you. I think seeing these posts from Eliot, Santacruz, etc. is so important, and hopefully makes people who weren't really tripping start paying attention to these issues. It's such a huge problem to tackle, I think we just gotta keep chipping away at it by increasing awareness, and corny as it sounds spread love. And peacefully demonstrating.

scary wrote:

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

What I've learned, and am working on, is that being part of the solution means listening to things that are sometimes hard. Eliot's words about why "I don't see color" and "all lives matter" invalidate his experiences are a good starting point.

There are no perfect words, but for those of us who come from a place of privilege (and by definition having the time and means to ride bikes and post on forums, we do) this is an opportunity for us to listen, learn and hopefully change our behaviour.

It's gonna be uncomfortable, learning new stuff usually is, but I think most of us can do it if we put little effort in.

I'm going to do my best.

scary wrote:

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

dolface wrote:

What I've learned, and am working on, is that being part of the solution means listening to things that are sometimes hard. Eliot's words about why "I don't see color" and "all lives matter" invalidate his experiences are a good starting point.

There are no perfect words, but for those of us who come from a place of privilege (and by definition having the time and means to ride bikes and post on forums, we do) this is an opportunity for us to listen, learn and hopefully change our behaviour.

It's gonna be uncomfortable, learning new stuff usually is, but I think most of us can do it if we put little effort in.

I'm going to do my best.

i have no problem to hard things. Isay hard things. Hard things are where the solutions are. Where they arent is posting black squares, flags etc. and pretending we just did anything of substance. Generally, Im a conservative\ libertarian on most things ,but i find myself disagreeing with my normal political allies on this topic. Im sick of it,Im sick of the finger pointing and the blame game. All the concentration JUST on the riots is pissing me off. There is a serious need for police reform and it needs to start there. DO THAT in legislation. Trump COULD plow this through IF he really wanted to and he'd pick up alot of votes. I dont need commentary on Trump,im just speaking.
Im just really irritated that the police cant be taken on and create some uniform standards of conduct. It HAS to start there,THEN we can move on to the next thing. Tired of the virtue signaling and meaningless expressions. Too much expressing,not enough doing. I know im not saying anything brilliant,here

scary wrote:

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

No one is pushing away; Eliot calmly, coolly, and clearly explained why these statements are problematic for him. Feeling alienated is going to be a part of this process for white people. It’s how many black and brown people of color feel every day in a world that is constructed largely by and for white people. But you can move beyond that alienation and come to recognize your place within the movement.

Another HUGE problem with saying “all lives matter” is that it is so frequently said in response to and disagreement with “black lives matter.” Black lives are at a greater threat than white lives for numerous reasons in the United States, whether at the hands of Police or due to heightened risk of disease such as heart disease or diabetes. Black people have a shorter life expectancy in America than white people. Until black lives are equal to white lives in this country (and really, worldwide), all lives don’t matter. I would love all lives to matter, but in order to do achieve this, we need to focus specifically on Black Lives, Indigenous Lives, and the Lives of other People of Color.

scary wrote:

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

yahmon wrote:

No one is pushing away; Eliot calmly, coolly, and clearly explained why these statements are problematic for him. Feeling alienated is going to be a part of this process for white people. It’s how many black and brown people of color feel every day in a world that is constructed largely by and for white people. But you can move beyond that alienation and come to recognize your place within the movement.

Another HUGE problem with saying “all lives matter” is that it is so frequently said in response to and disagreement with “black lives matter.” Black lives are at a greater threat than white lives for numerous reasons in the United States, whether at the hands of Police or due to heightened risk of disease such as heart disease or diabetes. Black people have a shorter life expectancy in America than white people. Until black lives are equal to white lives in this country (and really, worldwide), all lives don’t matter. I would love all lives to matter, but in order to do achieve this, we need to focus specifically on Black Lives, Indigenous Lives, and the Lives of other People of Color.

agreed on all points. Its kind of a weird feeling wanting to be of support,but not wanting to be one of those annoying ,white SJW's who IMHO are more racist than alot of people ,because they dont think black people can accomplish anything without a white savior to scream on their behalf.

scary wrote:

Id love to be a part of a movement that i knew would and i dont give a shit about empty displays of solidarity.
National policing reform? Great, lets do that! Town halls for all colors to discuss real reform? Yeah, awesome!
Not dismissing different negative experiences of minority populations at all, but when you chide well meaning people who "dont see color" or want "all lives to matter" youre pushing away people who want to support you and dont know what the hell they're supposed to do. Its jumping through burning hoops of fire that keep moving and these are the people that want to be a part of the solution. Lets stop pushing people of good intent who dont say the perfect words all the time away and get over it to tackle the hard problems,not the easy missteps or misspeaks. Im not one of those people, im an asshole, so ive heard, but they deserve a little grace . Because alot of us want to be part of a solution

yahmon wrote:

No one is pushing away; Eliot calmly, coolly, and clearly explained why these statements are problematic for him. Feeling alienated is going to be a part of this process for white people. It’s how many black and brown people of color feel every day in a world that is constructed largely by and for white people. But you can move beyond that alienation and come to recognize your place within the movement.

Another HUGE problem with saying “all lives matter” is that it is so frequently said in response to and disagreement with “black lives matter.” Black lives are at a greater threat than white lives for numerous reasons in the United States, whether at the hands of Police or due to heightened risk of disease such as heart disease or diabetes. Black people have a shorter life expectancy in America than white people. Until black lives are equal to white lives in this country (and really, worldwide), all lives don’t matter. I would love all lives to matter, but in order to do achieve this, we need to focus specifically on Black Lives, Indigenous Lives, and the Lives of other People of Color.

scary wrote:

agreed on all points. Its kind of a weird feeling wanting to be of support,but not wanting to be one of those annoying ,white SJW's who IMHO are more racist than alot of people ,because they dont think black people can accomplish anything without a white savior to scream on their behalf.

Well, black people won’t be able to accomplish much without the action of white people. White people hold most of the control in America, which we’ll either have to give up to people of color or use to help people of color gain power of their own.

The same goes for the mountain bike community. I would love to see a cycling world full of more people of color, but those of us who create its culture are going to have to be the ones to reshape, shift, and open mountain biking. We can’t expect black, brown, and indigenous people to just break their own way into a world in which they look different and have different experiences than us.

scary wrote:

agreed on all points. Its kind of a weird feeling wanting to be of support,but not wanting to be one of those annoying ,white SJW's who IMHO are more racist than alot of people ,because they dont think black people can accomplish anything without a white savior to scream on their behalf.

I too have felt some of the things you are worried about. One thing I suggest in this quandary is education. Here is a good jumping off spot->
https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/being-antiracist

I feel like education on the matter/following leader in minority group movements, and reading up on history has helped.

If you only do one thing, this video about OUR community is really good->

yahmon wrote:

No one is pushing away; Eliot calmly, coolly, and clearly explained why these statements are problematic for him. Feeling alienated is going to be a part of this process for white people. It’s how many black and brown people of color feel every day in a world that is constructed largely by and for white people. But you can move beyond that alienation and come to recognize your place within the movement.

Another HUGE problem with saying “all lives matter” is that it is so frequently said in response to and disagreement with “black lives matter.” Black lives are at a greater threat than white lives for numerous reasons in the United States, whether at the hands of Police or due to heightened risk of disease such as heart disease or diabetes. Black people have a shorter life expectancy in America than white people. Until black lives are equal to white lives in this country (and really, worldwide), all lives don’t matter. I would love all lives to matter, but in order to do achieve this, we need to focus specifically on Black Lives, Indigenous Lives, and the Lives of other People of Color.

scary wrote:

agreed on all points. Its kind of a weird feeling wanting to be of support,but not wanting to be one of those annoying ,white SJW's who IMHO are more racist than alot of people ,because they dont think black people can accomplish anything without a white savior to scream on their behalf.

yahmon wrote:

Well, black people won’t be able to accomplish much without the action of white people. White people hold most of the control in America, which we’ll either have to give up to people of color or use to help people of color gain power of their own.

The same goes for the mountain bike community. I would love to see a cycling world full of more people of color, but those of us who create its culture are going to have to be the ones to reshape, shift, and open mountain biking. We can’t expect black, brown, and indigenous people to just break their own way into a world in which they look different and have different experiences than us.

I dont know if its so much a racial thing as an economic one. But that being said, out of the 4 people i ever ride with,2 of them are hispanic. Sometimes I forget and then we make racial jokes at eachother and then everything is alright.

yahmon wrote:

No one is pushing away; Eliot calmly, coolly, and clearly explained why these statements are problematic for him. Feeling alienated is going to be a part of this process for white people. It’s how many black and brown people of color feel every day in a world that is constructed largely by and for white people. But you can move beyond that alienation and come to recognize your place within the movement.

Another HUGE problem with saying “all lives matter” is that it is so frequently said in response to and disagreement with “black lives matter.” Black lives are at a greater threat than white lives for numerous reasons in the United States, whether at the hands of Police or due to heightened risk of disease such as heart disease or diabetes. Black people have a shorter life expectancy in America than white people. Until black lives are equal to white lives in this country (and really, worldwide), all lives don’t matter. I would love all lives to matter, but in order to do achieve this, we need to focus specifically on Black Lives, Indigenous Lives, and the Lives of other People of Color.

scary wrote:

agreed on all points. Its kind of a weird feeling wanting to be of support,but not wanting to be one of those annoying ,white SJW's who IMHO are more racist than alot of people ,because they dont think black people can accomplish anything without a white savior to scream on their behalf.

Mwood wrote:

I too have felt some of the things you are worried about. One thing I suggest in this quandary is education. Here is a good jumping off spot->
https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/being-antiracist

I feel like education on the matter/following leader in minority group movements, and reading up on history has helped.

If you only do one thing, this video about OUR community is really good->

Thank you Sir.

"I don't see color" is bullshit. I see your color, and I think it's beautiful.

The world will always be racist until everyone feels the same way I do.

I imagine this couldn't have been easy to post for Eliot. As a POC, you already know you stand out and don't fit in so when BS comes up the general message is just to push through it and don't "whine" about it. Mountain biking is a white, male, cisgender sport. Does that make it automatically evil or wrong? No. But it certainly makes it intimating and alienating as hell for those that don't fit that criteria to feel that they're a part of the mtb community. And before you jump in with all kind of examples of how "you ride with a black/Hispanic/woman/whatever", I'll tell you that two things can be true at the same time. I've ridden with a lot of people, but I don't even need both hands to count how many of those actually cared to learn my name or even say it correctly. Just because you see people on the trail that don't fit the majority, doesn't mean that they're included.

Thank you for sharing this, Eliot. It is so sad, awful, and sickening what happens to black people. I am sorry you are the only one here. You matter to me. I can't imagine what it is like to be a black person (and since I'm a white parent, I can't fathom the never-ended worry black parents have). I'm sorry you have to go through this terror. Thank you for your insights.

If George Floyd were a white man, people wouldn't have stood there filming - they would have been intervening. When cops kill white people, they end up in jail on expedited murder charges. If you don't believe this, it's because your head is too far up your ass to see it. Plain and simple. Black lives matter.

In the words of Angela Davis "in a racist society, it's not enough to be non racist. You have to anti racist"

Claiming to be all for reform of the police etc then denigrating "white SJWs" would suggest that you aren't really serious about any kind of lasting change.

The last few hundred years of calls for incrementalism has lead us to the current flash point.

Also, if you think that you can separate the economic and social realms of politics, you are living in a dream land

Just because Angela Davis said something, dosent make it true.
You probably shouldnt judge my intentions once ive already clearly stated them by some mythical purity standard. That would suggest that YOU arent really that serious about "inclusion " or "diversity". ..A very "SJW" practice.
I never seperated any realms. I said pick something concrete in THIS realm and make real change. Then move on to the next thing.
Diversity isnt just about diversity of color,its diversity of thought.
Acceptance despite our diversity is the answer,period.

scary wrote:

Just because Angela Davis said something, dosent make it true.
You probably shouldnt judge my intentions once ive already clearly stated them by some mythical purity standard. That would suggest that YOU arent really that serious about "inclusion " or "diversity". ..A very "SJW" practice.
I never seperated any realms. I said pick something concrete in THIS realm and make real change. Then move on to the next thing.
Diversity isnt just about diversity of color,its diversity of thought.
Acceptance despite our diversity is the answer,period.

Perhaps I should be more clear.

It's the position you've outlined, specifically on it's own terms, that I find ridiculous.

The problem isn't bad management of an otherwise reasonable system (i.e. fix this thing then move on to the next) it is the political ideology that forms the foundation for it. Conservative, Libertarian whatever you want to call it. It's a politics that requires a heavily stratified society to function.

So its ridiculous to fight to change one area at a time theough legislation, in a nation of laws. But instead demand all citizens subscribe to a a utoipian ideology.
And, im ridiculous...

I can see where aren't going to get anywhere here but just out of curiosity, why do think that the improvement you would like to make hasn't been implemented already?

We CAN get somewhere. We dont have to get everywhere all at once. How do you eat an elephant??..
Uniform, national policing standards that eliminate some of these very dangerous holds.
Bust up the unions that keep these cops from ever being charged and investigated. Thats where alot of these cases get shut down.
Stop self policing, where one police dept 'investigates" another dept for crimes alleged.No more internal investigations
De militarize them, they don't need tanks and that bs.
This may sound silly but, make the uniforms less imposing that theyve become. Plus, its 112 today in Phoenix ,youre gonna be irritable in a full covering of black in the sun..
Their not soldiers, we're not enemy combatants and this isnt a battlefield

If there's enough of you then you could rip the elephant to bits in an instant...

Those things are all good in of themselves but I would say that we have the bulk of those things already in the UK and the police are still worryingly competent at killing black people.

But again, why haven't these things happened already, in your opinion

Atkisa wrote:

If there's enough of you then you could rip the elephant to bits in an instant...

Those things are all good in of themselves but I would say that we have the bulk of those things already in the UK and the police are still worryingly competent at killing black people.

But again, why haven't these things happened already, in your opinion

Honestly,I think social media,as much as I have disdain for it,is and will be the thing that forces change. You cant hide anymore(as easily). I think authority is going to have to change. And its only going to become more prevalent. Its a double edged sword that i think allows the degradation of societies,too,but here we are.
I get the frustration, anger and Im trying my best to put myself in other races shoes and see things from their pov. I gotta admit that sometimes its a fight when it seems like every "group" of anything is looking for the top spot in the oppression Olympics. I don't understand the quest for conquered status by the cis patriarchy when there are clear examples of oppression that get discarded. It all becomes overwhelming and trivialized to an extent . And I certainly dont feel any obligation to surrender any of my "white privilege" to groups of people that are more than happy to continue hating me and making up names and labels to tag to me so that i can be summarily discarded from the conversation.
On another note,here in the US the dominant perspective is that we are the home of racism,the place that invented slavery and everywhere in europe is vastly better and are 100's of years further along. So, you tell me.

If you watched the video, you know that what happened to George Floyd was horrifying and wrong. Eliot is one more person in a round chorus of black voices who've expressed that what happened to George Floyd wasn't unusual or surprising, but is a normal and tragic part of black life in America. If I'm hearing their message correctly, that sucks. Apparently things aren't alright here and the way we do policing doesn't work and needs to change. And if you had any doubts, go watch some videos of the riot police in city after city shooting peaceful protesters with rubber bullets and flashbangs or assaulting members of the press. Things are bad.

Yep