Advise needed for a new Enduro/Trail rig

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6/15/2018 3:51 AM

Hi all!!

I wanted to start a topic as I am currently looking for a new bike. My goal is to have some kind of "do-it-all" bike that could follow me on rides with my GF (really easy stuff) as well as sending laps in Bikeparks (I know the spectrum is really wide). Also, I would like to try enduro racing (no big competitions, but competitions nonetheless).

My biggest concern is the budget. My goal is to spend around 3000€ max. for this bike. I know that nowadays it is not that much but I find it totally irrelevant to spend 5/6k€ on a bike (when compared to other life big investments), considering the time spent on it and my skills level ^^.

That is why I need your advise, your experiences and feedbacks regarding my project. My previous bike was more a freeride bike (Slayer SS 350) so I do not have any experience on an enduro bike:
- Should I go for a new bike? Direct sale or from a local shop (limited choice in Toulouse)? Second hand bike?
- Should I go for a Trail bike or an Enduro bike?
- What wheel size and/or Suspension travel?

It's been few weeks now that I spend time checking articles and websites looking for the perfect bike.

For information, those are the bikes that I think could do the job and that I like:

- Propain Tyee Free (custom build)
- Maybe the Propain Spindrift (Very very sexy bike, but maybe out of the riding type spectrum)
- YT capra 27 AL Comp (or CF if there is any good deals)
- YT Jeffsy 27 AL Comp
- Canyon Spectral CF8.0
- Canyon Strive AL 6.0 or CF7.0 (again if good deal). For this one, if they update them with the same design as the new spectral, it will become one of my favorites!
- Mondraker Dune (or Dune R if any good deals)
- Commencal Meta V4.2 Essential

Sorry I have lots of annoying questions and details, but I want to be sure of what I do and that the bike I select is the best for me. And sorry also for my child-like writing ^^, I am not that good in english!

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6/15/2018 9:10 AM

I'll chime in.

Your budget is fine. Lot of brands offering a lot of bang for the buck these days. Seeing you are in Europe that does change things a bit.

First things first, *absolutely* go new unless you are mechanically inclined and know exactly what to look for in a used bike. It can be a bit of a gamble with anything used unless you are trained to look for certain things. Guessing if that was the case, you wouldn't be posting here

As far as wheel size and travel, that is very much personal preference, even in your defined "scope of use". I've had bikes from 115mm to 170mm over the last 5 years all for the same "purpose". Believe it or not, I actually liked the bike with the least amount of travel the most, and was fastest on said bike, but everyone is different. If you can set aside some money to try stuff out, I think it would serve you immensely. There is no substitute for saddle time. If you do go this route, ***make sure the bike is the right size (that you demo) and the suspension setup properly!***

The direct to consumer brands are going to offer the most bang for the buck, bike shop brands less, but there is a lot to be said about a shop supporting your purchase. This too is a bit like the used vs new decision. If you are proficient at small adjustments and okay using the web for setup and tweaks, D2C is a good option. Otherwise, stick with a shop that'll back you.

From there the "what bike" decision is going to be narrowed down significantly. Otherwise, throwing out ideas is a bit like shooting at targets in the dark. We need more information!

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6/15/2018 10:49 AM

Disclaimer: I don't know much about your riding style, skill, or the type of terrain around Toulouse.

If your'e not racing enduro all the time and competitively I would steer clear of the enduro race style bikes like the Strive and even the Meta 4.2. 170mm is a lot of bike if you aren't riding gnar and flat out all the time.

As jeff mentioned above D2C is a great option if you are even slightly mechanically inclined. If i was you this is what I would buy this in a heartbeat. I think I could go out and do an enduro race on it tomorrow. You could take that 700 euros from your budget and use that for mechanic work in a shop when something breaks. Or an extra trip to the Alps this summer.

https://www.canyon.com/en/factory-outlet/category.html#category=mtb-bikes&id=25833

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6/15/2018 2:54 PM

Hi Jeff, Andrew,

Thanks a lot for your responses. I know that my questions are a bit too general, it is mainly due to the fact that there now so many options out there nowadays!
Regarding your remarks:

- Indeed I wanted mainly to go new in order to have a bike with an up to date geo and components. Also to get the full advantage of the warranty and customer service. I am quiet into mechanical (as I built myself my previous bike and serviced it myself) but I wanted to go for the "easy" way. So basically it is not a problem for me to buy a bike from a direct sales brand. I am thinking about Commencal as Toulouse is 2 hours only from Andorra, so that is a good point regarding customer service
- The demo are a good idea indeed. I planned also to rent these kind of bikes for bikepark laps this summer in order to have a first sensation on the bike. As said, it is the only proven test to know which bike is good for me!
- Regarding the profile of the bike, that's a concern for me. I will not race every week, but will go to bikeparks and enduro laps quiet often (I hope). I fear that a trail bike will be a little "too light" for bikeparks, jumps, a bit of freeride... If the bike pedals well, I don't mind having a "big" rig. Then again, I do not have much experience on those 2 kind of bikes and I think they totally different compared to my old Slayer SS.

All in all, I want a fun and playfull bike that I can pedal on but also that I can throw in the tech stuff with confidence. For information, in the Pyrénées, the trails are quiet natural but steep and techy (lots of roots/rocks).

Thanks again, it helps me a lot to discuss it with you!

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6/15/2018 3:44 PM

Aksel,
I bought a Meta AM 4.2 last year and I'm really happy with it. I ride mostly what you'd call Enduro, although I don't race. I plan to take it to the bike park this summer and I'm sure it will perform just fine, as my local enduro trails are somewhat rougher and steeper than the bike park features!
On the other side of the coin, I ride with my 8 year-old son around the neighborhood quite a bit. He's not super gnarly, so we don't do anything fast or technical at all, but the Commencal is still comfy enough to cruise around on. The only complaint I can even muster is that the seat is pretty small and very hard. I may swap that piece out later.

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6/16/2018 1:48 AM

Hello Falcon!

Many thanks for your feedback! The essential version seems really well specd for the price! I have read that it was quite heavy, do you really feel the weight when riding?
My slayer was around 16,5 kgs (around 36 lbs) and it was a pain in the ass for the climbs and flat sections ^^. Well, the geometry did not help either!

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6/16/2018 2:38 AM

don't know if your are factoring it on the price or not, but if you go and buy the meta in andorra( and them ride there for it to not look new and enjoy the spot) you buy the bike cheaper because you don't have taxes

having said that, i ordered my self yt capra 29 , for me seemed to be the better option.

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6/16/2018 9:47 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/16/2018 9:47 AM

Hello tmano2!

Indeed the price is a big factor (buying a house at the same time is not the perfect timing ^^ ). I have just seen on their site that there is 10% off if you come pick the bike up. It would make the essential at 2699€ so a good 300€ saving which is great. And it could be the opportunity to test it and maybe set it up for me (TBC with Commencal).
Andorra is just 2h/2h30 from Toulouse so that's not a big deal for me. That put the Meta as a really good choice.

Do you already have your capra or are you still waiting for it?

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6/16/2018 9:51 AM

Lots of people on Meta's around here (Whistler). We have the Canadian distributor in Squamish and they are generally pretty helpful. Never heard anyone complain about them and their build kits are legit, so if you think its not too much bike it also sounds like a great deal for you too.

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6/16/2018 9:52 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hello tmano2!

Indeed the price is a big factor (buying a house at the same time is not the perfect timing ^^ ). I have just seen on their site that there is 10% off if you come pick the bike up. It would make the essential at 2699€ so a good 300€ saving which is great. And it could be the opportunity to test it and maybe set it up for me (TBC with Commencal).
Andorra is just 2h/2h30 from Toulouse so that's not a big deal for me. That put the Meta as a really good choice.

Do you already have your capra or are you still waiting for it?

i tink the price " 2 999,00 €
2 499,17 € HT" is the HT one, because if you buy it there , you don't have to pay the VAT on it, do they had another 10% discount on it? you just have to get it dirty to not have the trouble on the border, as if it is already used, they don't think it's new

should arrive this week

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6/16/2018 10:55 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hello tmano2!

Indeed the price is a big factor (buying a house at the same time is not the perfect timing ^^ ). I have just seen on their site that there is 10% off if you come pick the bike up. It would make the essential at 2699€ so a good 300€ saving which is great. And it could be the opportunity to test it and maybe set it up for me (TBC with Commencal).
Andorra is just 2h/2h30 from Toulouse so that's not a big deal for me. That put the Meta as a really good choice.

Do you already have your capra or are you still waiting for it?

tmano2 wrote:

i tink the price " 2 999,00 €
2 499,17 € HT" is the HT one, because if you buy it there , you don't have to pay the VAT on it, do they had another 10% discount on it? you just have to get it dirty to not have the trouble on the border, as if it is already used, they don't think it's new

should arrive this week

Here is what I see on their site:



It's on the TTC price (all taxes included) but I think that it's in the case you order it on the website and choose to pick it up at their showroom.
Maybe if I go directly there, I can get the brushed alu (Race model) for the same price as the Essential. I will just have to test it on Vallnord Bikepark and it will be good ^^

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6/16/2018 11:42 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hello tmano2!

Indeed the price is a big factor (buying a house at the same time is not the perfect timing ^^ ). I have just seen on their site that there is 10% off if you come pick the bike up. It would make the essential at 2699€ so a good 300€ saving which is great. And it could be the opportunity to test it and maybe set it up for me (TBC with Commencal).
Andorra is just 2h/2h30 from Toulouse so that's not a big deal for me. That put the Meta as a really good choice.

Do you already have your capra or are you still waiting for it?

tmano2 wrote:

i tink the price " 2 999,00 €
2 499,17 € HT" is the HT one, because if you buy it there , you don't have to pay the VAT on it, do they had another 10% discount on it? you just have to get it dirty to not have the trouble on the border, as if it is already used, they don't think it's new

should arrive this week

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Here is what I see on their site:



It's on the TTC price (all taxes included) but I think that it's in the case you order it on the website and choose to pick it up at their showroom.
Maybe if I go directly there, I can get the brushed alu (Race model) for the same price as the Essential. I will just have to test it on Vallnord Bikepark and it will be good ^^

do that, would be the best deal
if they had the 29 model on sale yet, i would do just that, and i live 1100 km from there

good luck

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6/17/2018 1:25 AM

tmano2 wrote:

i tink the price " 2 999,00 €
2 499,17 € HT" is the HT one, because if you buy it there , you don't have to pay the VAT on it, do they had another 10% discount on it? you just have to get it dirty to not have the trouble on the border, as if it is already used, they don't think it's new

should arrive this week

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Here is what I see on their site:



It's on the TTC price (all taxes included) but I think that it's in the case you order it on the website and choose to pick it up at their showroom.
Maybe if I go directly there, I can get the brushed alu (Race model) for the same price as the Essential. I will just have to test it on Vallnord Bikepark and it will be good ^^

tmano2 wrote:

do that, would be the best deal
if they had the 29 model on sale yet, i would do just that, and i live 1100 km from there

good luck

Thanks for the advice,

I will think about it.

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6/19/2018 4:38 AM

If you are going to the bike park regularly, maybe don't prioritize the jeffsy and spectral, they are great all mountain and even enduro race bikes, but they will suffer a little too much in jumps and bermed corners, I have a Jeffsy that I love and race often on natural trails, but it just feels too flexy in the bike park.

As above, you can test Commencals in Andorra and get a discount if you buy at their HQ, so definitely prioritize that. But take into account that the 2.5K versions of the Capra and Strive are really well equipped and come in way under your budget.

I will also add that i bought a commencal e-bike recently, and their service has been amazing: they reply really informatively within 24 hours of any emails, they are sending me out a new downtube protector for free as I ripped the first one off, I received the bike before its announced shipping date.

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6/19/2018 5:44 AM

Eoin wrote:

If you are going to the bike park regularly, maybe don't prioritize the jeffsy and spectral, they are great all mountain and even enduro race bikes, but they will suffer a little too much in jumps and bermed corners, I have a Jeffsy that I love and race often on natural trails, but it just feels too flexy in the bike park.

As above, you can test Commencals in Andorra and get a discount if you buy at their HQ, so definitely prioritize that. But take into account that the 2.5K versions of the Capra and Strive are really well equipped and come in way under your budget.

I will also add that i bought a commencal e-bike recently, and their service has been amazing: they reply really informatively within 24 hours of any emails, they are sending me out a new downtube protector for free as I ripped the first one off, I received the bike before its announced shipping date.

Hi Eoin!

Thank you for your feedback. There's no better thing as experiences from customers. The service behind the purchase of a new bike is really important for me and I do feel from the feedbacks of everyone that Commencal is pretty good (It is the closest option from me also).
It doesn't seem as efficient regarding Canyon and YT (regarding Propain, I lack information regarding their customer service).

On another note, it's true that YT Canyon and Propain are well equiped, with higher end components... Arrrghhh this so complicated ^^
Those seem to be so good options. It's really difficult to have a proper preference on one of those bikes.


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6/25/2018 3:43 PM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hello Falcon!

Many thanks for your feedback! The essential version seems really well specd for the price! I have read that it was quite heavy, do you really feel the weight when riding?
My slayer was around 16,5 kgs (around 36 lbs) and it was a pain in the ass for the climbs and flat sections ^^. Well, the geometry did not help either!

Hey, sorry I missed your question!

I am NOT a climber, so I cannot be the best advisor with regard to that. However, I have ridden a few friends' bikes around and I can say that the weight difference isn't very noticeable to me. I can tell the geometry is much more a factor, but even that doesn't bother me too much.
I came off a Gary Fisher Cake 2, which was much steeper and shorter. I mostly notice the difference in the Commencal to be that it lifts the front wheel a little when I pedal hard uphill while leaning back. It definitely has to be on purpose, but I feel like I can wheelie much more easily in that scenario; sometimes that's a good thing!

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6/26/2018 1:27 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hello Falcon!

Many thanks for your feedback! The essential version seems really well specd for the price! I have read that it was quite heavy, do you really feel the weight when riding?
My slayer was around 16,5 kgs (around 36 lbs) and it was a pain in the ass for the climbs and flat sections ^^. Well, the geometry did not help either!

Falcon wrote:

Hey, sorry I missed your question!

I am NOT a climber, so I cannot be the best advisor with regard to that. However, I have ridden a few friends' bikes around and I can say that the weight difference isn't very noticeable to me. I can tell the geometry is much more a factor, but even that doesn't bother me too much.
I came off a Gary Fisher Cake 2, which was much steeper and shorter. I mostly notice the difference in the Commencal to be that it lifts the front wheel a little when I pedal hard uphill while leaning back. It definitely has to be on purpose, but I feel like I can wheelie much more easily in that scenario; sometimes that's a good thing!

Hi!

No problem thanks anyway for your feedback! You are right, after all, the geometry is the biggest factor regarding the capabilities of the bike

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6/27/2018 3:20 PM

Hi Guys!

Look what I have just found: https://www.purebike.fr/vtt-dune-aluminium-27-5-taille-s-5

The Mondraker Dune for 2800€. I find the Mondraker bikes really attractive and they seem to work very well. However, the build here is awful. That's the kind of project where you replace most of the parts to upgrade properly the bike.

What do you think? Should the frame prevail here or is it just too low regarding the components to take it as a serious option? The Dune R would have been perfect but it just to expensive for my budget

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6/27/2018 4:39 PM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hi Guys!

Look what I have just found: https://www.purebike.fr/vtt-dune-aluminium-27-5-taille-s-5

The Mondraker Dune for 2800€. I find the Mondraker bikes really attractive and they seem to work very well. However, the build here is awful. That's the kind of project where you replace most of the parts to upgrade properly the bike.

What do you think? Should the frame prevail here or is it just too low regarding the components to take it as a serious option? The Dune R would have been perfect but it just to expensive for my budget

those frames break like crazy, and the spec is really low
he is probably better with the other bikes refereed

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6/28/2018 11:09 AM

The new Spectral is pretty god damn good. I have approximately 8-10 rides on the cheap aluminum build. The build kit is fantastic aside from the poor engagement on the hubs. Solid climber, capable descender, and very impressive components. If I were buying one for myself, I would probably go with one of the carbon models. You could definitely bang some park laps on it, but your probably going to want to stick to the new-school flowier stuff. It would be interesting to see what a better rear shock would do for this bike.

In my opinion, the Spectral blows the Jeffsy out of the water.

I also have extensive time on the Strive. I would definitely not buy one until they redesign that frame. It has a super old-school feel. They originally designed that bike around a 160mm fork, now they spec it with a 170. Pair the over-forking with a long head tube and you have a very high and awkward front end. I will say, the Shapeshifter is pretty slick. Takes some getting used to but that bike climbs very well.

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6/29/2018 1:25 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hi Guys!

Look what I have just found: https://www.purebike.fr/vtt-dune-aluminium-27-5-taille-s-5

The Mondraker Dune for 2800€. I find the Mondraker bikes really attractive and they seem to work very well. However, the build here is awful. That's the kind of project where you replace most of the parts to upgrade properly the bike.

What do you think? Should the frame prevail here or is it just too low regarding the components to take it as a serious option? The Dune R would have been perfect but it just to expensive for my budget

tmano2 wrote:

those frames break like crazy, and the spec is really low
he is probably better with the other bikes refereed

Hi!

Can you be more precise? Just saying that "it breaks like crazy" does not bring anything here for me. Do you have some facts/feedbacks regarding this?

Anyway it's indeed way lower than the others, even if it's a proven frame.

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6/29/2018 1:35 AM

pdon wrote:

The new Spectral is pretty god damn good. I have approximately 8-10 rides on the cheap aluminum build. The build kit is fantastic aside from the poor engagement on the hubs. Solid climber, capable descender, and very impressive components. If I were buying one for myself, I would probably go with one of the carbon models. You could definitely bang some park laps on it, but your probably going to want to stick to the new-school flowier stuff. It would be interesting to see what a better rear shock would do for this bike.

In my opinion, the Spectral blows the Jeffsy out of the water.

I also have extensive time on the Strive. I would definitely not buy one until they redesign that frame. It has a super old-school feel. They originally designed that bike around a 160mm fork, now they spec it with a 170. Pair the over-forking with a long head tube and you have a very high and awkward front end. I will say, the Shapeshifter is pretty slick. Takes some getting used to but that bike climbs very well.

Hi!

Many thanks for your feedback. Thing is I want more a "solid descender and capable climber" than a "Solid climber and capable descender". But i do understand that the spectral is a very capable bike, in addition for my budget I would be able to get the entry carbon model which looks stunning! I was thinking also if it was possible to make a burlier ride with a different shock/fork combo. But that does mean additional upgrades in the future.

I definitely agree with you on the Strive. I would be so happy to see an updated strive with the same lines as the spectral and the torque! They have recently launched the updated Lux for XC so let's hope they will launch the update soon! *Fingers crossed"

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6/29/2018 11:33 AM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hi Guys!

Look what I have just found: https://www.purebike.fr/vtt-dune-aluminium-27-5-taille-s-5

The Mondraker Dune for 2800€. I find the Mondraker bikes really attractive and they seem to work very well. However, the build here is awful. That's the kind of project where you replace most of the parts to upgrade properly the bike.

What do you think? Should the frame prevail here or is it just too low regarding the components to take it as a serious option? The Dune R would have been perfect but it just to expensive for my budget

tmano2 wrote:

those frames break like crazy, and the spec is really low
he is probably better with the other bikes refereed

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hi!

Can you be more precise? Just saying that "it breaks like crazy" does not bring anything here for me. Do you have some facts/feedbacks regarding this?

Anyway it's indeed way lower than the others, even if it's a proven frame.

know 3 or 4 guys that have the alloy model, and 1 with the carbon, the carbon one is fine, no problems there and it is of the guy who rides more and the best
the others, don't ride that wheel or are aggressive, and each broke the frame at least 1 time, one of them received a frame from warranty, rode it for not even a month and had a crack already

if you find a deal on the carbon one go for it, the alloy one stay away

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6/30/2018 8:19 AM

Havent followed this, but just stopped in Path Bike Shop and almost fell over when I saw this Beauty. Mondraker Foxy Carbon RR. Amazing Enduro rig

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6/30/2018 10:12 AM

tmano2 wrote:

those frames break like crazy, and the spec is really low
he is probably better with the other bikes refereed

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Hi!

Can you be more precise? Just saying that "it breaks like crazy" does not bring anything here for me. Do you have some facts/feedbacks regarding this?

Anyway it's indeed way lower than the others, even if it's a proven frame.

tmano2 wrote:

know 3 or 4 guys that have the alloy model, and 1 with the carbon, the carbon one is fine, no problems there and it is of the guy who rides more and the best
the others, don't ride that wheel or are aggressive, and each broke the frame at least 1 time, one of them received a frame from warranty, rode it for not even a month and had a crack already

if you find a deal on the carbon one go for it, the alloy one stay away

Hello tmano2!

Thanks for your feedback! I did not know about this issue with the AL frames! That's a shame considering how expensive the frame is...

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6/30/2018 10:15 AM

harorider13 wrote:

Havent followed this, but just stopped in Path Bike Shop and almost fell over when I saw this Beauty. Mondraker Foxy Carbon RR. Amazing Enduro rig

That is indeed a sweet looking bike! That is why I was looking for it. Too bad the Mondraker are quite expensive

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