2023 TEAM RUMORS

Primoz
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7/12/2022 9:50am
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives a chance to all skiers. And usually only the first 40 to 50 skiers from the first run are televised live and they go from first to last, not the other way around.

But skiing runs are mostly shorter than MTB DH runs, so there's a difference too. Might the 30 only limitation be there to make gaps between riders longer, so each run can be shown in its entirety or as near as?
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bb rides
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7/12/2022 9:58am
Primoz wrote:
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives...
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives a chance to all skiers. And usually only the first 40 to 50 skiers from the first run are televised live and they go from first to last, not the other way around.

But skiing runs are mostly shorter than MTB DH runs, so there's a difference too. Might the 30 only limitation be there to make gaps between riders longer, so each run can be shown in its entirety or as near as?
in DH skiing, there are more then 60 at the start!
veefour
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7/12/2022 10:47am
Primoz wrote:
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives...
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives a chance to all skiers. And usually only the first 40 to 50 skiers from the first run are televised live and they go from first to last, not the other way around.

But skiing runs are mostly shorter than MTB DH runs, so there's a difference too. Might the 30 only limitation be there to make gaps between riders longer, so each run can be shown in its entirety or as near as?
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the top. You never know your luck.
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jonkranked
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7/12/2022 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2022 9:03pm
Primoz wrote:
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives...
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives a chance to all skiers. And usually only the first 40 to 50 skiers from the first run are televised live and they go from first to last, not the other way around.

But skiing runs are mostly shorter than MTB DH runs, so there's a difference too. Might the 30 only limitation be there to make gaps between riders longer, so each run can be shown in its entirety or as near as?
veefour wrote:
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the...
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the top. You never know your luck.
given the financial resources discoveryhas at their disposal, is it really fair that they are passing that cost to the teams? also don't the registration fees go to the UCI, not the media broadcast rights holder?
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7/12/2022 8:52pm
Primoz wrote:
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives...
TBH the second run in skiing in slalom and giant slalom also covers only 30 skiers. But that's the second run while the first run gives a chance to all skiers. And usually only the first 40 to 50 skiers from the first run are televised live and they go from first to last, not the other way around.

But skiing runs are mostly shorter than MTB DH runs, so there's a difference too. Might the 30 only limitation be there to make gaps between riders longer, so each run can be shown in its entirety or as near as?
veefour wrote:
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the...
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the top. You never know your luck.
jonkranked wrote:
given the financial resources discoveryhas at their disposal, is it really fair that they are passing that cost to the teams? also don't the registration fees...
given the financial resources discoveryhas at their disposal, is it really fair that they are passing that cost to the teams? also don't the registration fees go to the UCI, not the media broadcast rights holder?
Am I missing something? How is Outside connected to Discovery and the UCI broadcasting?

On the topic of team rumors. How awesome would be it for Gee to be rocking something ridiculous in his videos like the old Karpiel Armageddon with a Monster T upfront. Atherton Bikes needs to buildup something awesome for his videos, or else I hope to see "Gee Atherton signs with Karpiel" 😂😂😂
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jonkranked
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7/12/2022 9:04pm
veefour wrote:
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the...
Yeah, maybe the registration cost rising from $3000 to $20,000 is to pay for more cameras and not to line the pockets of those at the top. You never know your luck.
jonkranked wrote:
given the financial resources discoveryhas at their disposal, is it really fair that they are passing that cost to the teams? also don't the registration fees...
given the financial resources discoveryhas at their disposal, is it really fair that they are passing that cost to the teams? also don't the registration fees go to the UCI, not the media broadcast rights holder?
Lacanuck24 wrote:
Am I missing something? How is Outside connected to Discovery and the UCI broadcasting? On the topic of team rumors. How awesome would be it for...
Am I missing something? How is Outside connected to Discovery and the UCI broadcasting?

On the topic of team rumors. How awesome would be it for Gee to be rocking something ridiculous in his videos like the old Karpiel Armageddon with a Monster T upfront. Atherton Bikes needs to buildup something awesome for his videos, or else I hope to see "Gee Atherton signs with Karpiel" 😂😂😂
you're right, somehow got confused between outside & discovery, still some post covid brain fog i reckon. sorry for the mixup.
AndehM
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7/13/2022 9:00am
The fucked up thing with a 30 man qualifier is that as it is, there's only like a few sec separating 1-20. I get that it's unlikely that someone who qualis 45 sec back from the #1 is going to podium, but there is also a certain amount of variability between quali times and finals times.
tullie
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Lakeside, CA US
7/13/2022 9:16am
Supercross a much bigger show only has a 20 man qualifier. As much as I hate 30 people qualifying it may make for better racing
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bnsleit
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7/13/2022 9:36am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2022 9:38am
tullie wrote:
Supercross a much bigger show only has a 20 man qualifier. As much as I hate 30 people qualifying it may make for better racing
...that all start at once, have to say it's apples and oranges with downhill. All too often someone that qualified outside the top 30 lays down a heater and throws the top 10 for a loop, and I would hate to see that window close.

dolface
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7/13/2022 9:42am
bnsleit wrote:
...that all start at once, have to say it's apples and oranges with downhill. All too often someone that qualified outside the top 30 lays down...
...that all start at once, have to say it's apples and oranges with downhill. All too often someone that qualified outside the top 30 lays down a heater and throws the top 10 for a loop, and I would hate to see that window close.

Case in point, Tuhoto qualified 37th and finished 13th.
7/13/2022 9:50am
Reducing the Finals to 30 does remove the strategy of "Qualify slow/safe, pin it for Finals"...

I feel that people definitely would ride a bit safer in Qualifying especially if there was rain forecast for Finals, so they could ride a dryer or less beat up track.
On the other hand, then it does reduce the effect weather has, and encourages everyone to pin it in qualifying.
7/13/2022 10:35am
Reducing the Finals to 30 does remove the strategy of "Qualify slow/safe, pin it for Finals"... I feel that people definitely would ride a bit safer...
Reducing the Finals to 30 does remove the strategy of "Qualify slow/safe, pin it for Finals"...

I feel that people definitely would ride a bit safer in Qualifying especially if there was rain forecast for Finals, so they could ride a dryer or less beat up track.
On the other hand, then it does reduce the effect weather has, and encourages everyone to pin it in qualifying.
It would change the strategy for many riders, but the protected riders would still be safe to lay it on the line for those precious quali points.

At the very least, I would like to see the top 20 riders remain protected; the top 30 qualifiers plus the protected riders would get us somewhere around 35-40 riders on race day, and that wouldn't be horrible - of course I'd love to see it stay at 60, but you do start to get into negligible points in both qualis and finals beyond those rankings, and we also see the tracks take a beating with so many laps.

But at risk here is a part of the culture - it's the privateer element at pro races that is so cool that will surely suffer and start to disappear. Being able to send it on qualis for a shot at top 60 is such an awesome aspect of DH that has brought numerous feel-good stories to the sport, from the Denim Destroyer to Wyn's privateers of the week, a number of whom have really blossomed. And this adds tremendously to the enjoyment of the sport.

So, in making what may be a sleeker and "better event" to help grow the sport's audience, we may be taking out a crucial stepping stone for the people this whole thing rides on: up and coming athletes.

- sry for the novel, been on my mind a lot
trexyz
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7/13/2022 1:44pm
They already reduced the field from 80 to 60. I don’t see any reason to go with 30 riders for the big final. I understand that we can watch only the last 30, I’m ok with that but to have only 30 riders for race will close a window for many underdogs. And this is why this sport is so good to watch. You never know when a new and unknown rider will throw a good run that will place him inside top 10.
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sspomer
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7/13/2022 2:03pm
we may not have to worry about top 30 if commencal goes to baseball instead. Cool


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brash
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7/13/2022 3:26pm
if you drop it to 30 riders you cant have protected riders IMO.

imagine this, your a young Aussie/Kiwi, you save up hard for 2 years to live the dream in a Ford Transit van and eating nothing but Service station food and drinking cheap Czech beer for 4 months of summer. Your bike has cracks in the bottom bracket junction, the tyres are bald, your derailleur is making some fucked up noises, but you picture that young Sam Hill, Nathan Rennie or Masters brothers and think "I can do that too"

suddenly, your chance of qualifying halves, you have gone from a slim chance, to mathematically nearly zero because some chodes in suits think it will make better TV.

2024 rolls around, no privateers to be seen (because whats the point)
7/13/2022 3:43pm
If they broadcast qualifying to the same degree they broadcast the final. A 30 or even 20 final would be pretty ok. But that assumes qualifying is broadcast to a high level. Doubt that is in the plans.
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gibbon
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7/13/2022 4:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2022 4:05pm
They will-
1.Up the min UCI points to race at WC events.
2.Only allow UCi registered trade teams.
3.Stop national governing bodies getting wildcard entrants.
4.Slash number of qualifying riders.
5.Award races to the highest bidder regardless of the suitability of the venue (especially seeing as they want multi discipline venues to save money)
This will be justified by saying "that WC represents the highest pinnacle of the sport, catering for the best athletes and these changes will allow us to present the best racing we have ever seen.....So shut up peasants, we own it now,so stop whinging or fuck off, that's goes for you riders too,,,,it;s only riding pushbikes-go and get a real job there's plenty more fish in the sea.
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Primoz
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7/13/2022 9:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2022 9:16pm
Point 5 sounds oddly familiar... There are rumors Spa, a top 5 legendary track of all times, will be dropped from the F1 calendar next year to be replaced by... Las Vegas with a street circuit.

Literally like dropping Mont St. Anne and replacing it with Willingen.
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mfoga
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7/13/2022 9:41pm
tullie wrote:
Supercross a much bigger show only has a 20 man qualifier. As much as I hate 30 people qualifying it may make for better racing
Don't they get multiple chances to get in the race too?
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gibbon
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7/14/2022 12:25am Edited Date/Time 7/14/2022 12:30am
tullie wrote:
Supercross a much bigger show only has a 20 man qualifier. As much as I hate 30 people qualifying it may make for better racing
mfoga wrote:
Don't they get multiple chances to get in the race too?
IIRC it used to be the 40 fastest laps from afternoon practice raced in 2 qualifier races of 20, where the top 10 went to finals.And an LCQ (last chance qualy ) where everyone who didn't make it raced again for 2 remaining spots in the final.
veefour
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7/14/2022 8:08am Edited Date/Time 7/14/2022 8:09am
While talk of more coverage of runs because of less riders is nice in principle, bear in mind that less riders also means more time for adverts.
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KMBNT
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PL
7/14/2022 12:34pm
Riders union? I see a few riders testing positive and getting lifetime bans… in like 3 2 1 😂
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Primoz
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7/15/2022 8:00am
Anybody notice how Greg said 'they' being heard about the rider's union? Reading too much into it or could Greg be retiring?
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sspomer
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7/15/2022 9:29am
i took the statement as greg being closer to the UCI and not being as into the union idea as others, but assumption on my part.

could there be some red bull athlete worry behind the union too (loic's movement)? i DO NOT think red bull limits exposure of non-red bull athletes in the broadcast and even their editorial features, but red bull athletes get a lot of exposure because the broadcast is controlled by red bull (POVs, thumbnails all over youtube and the red bull site, social media posts etc). i don't know how contracts are worked out, but if total # of impressions are part of a deal, i'd imagine those impressions will be lower next year for red bull athletes b/c red bull will not have direct access to the same race weekend content for social channels/youtube.

if i was a red bull athlete, i'd be bummed for sure.
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lloyd506
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7/15/2022 9:44am
Red bull doesn’t seem to give extra promotion in broadcast to their athletes. At the last race they showed two minutes of Vidal’s flat tire run and then about twenty seconds of Gwin.
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sspomer
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7/15/2022 10:59am
i agree and above said i do not think red bull broadcast coverage favors their riders over others, it's the external content that is important (screenshot of red bull bike's channel and thumbnails as examples...not every one has a RB athlete, but most do)



there's no way discovery will have this kind of reach on youtube next year and unless red bull has a crew covering world cups on their own (no differently than vital making RAW), then these views won't exist for their athletes. same on social.

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Verbl Kint
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Quezon City PH
7/15/2022 11:55am
This got me wondering if there will also be changes/restrictions on what videos can be filmed or posted online by accredited media at the races. Or even on what possible changes there will be for helmet cam footage from the athletes themselves (i.e. will it be similar to the EWS?).
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trexyz
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7/15/2022 2:43pm
I really hope to see Taylor Vernon signed by a factory team. Raised by Atherton’s definitely he has the skills but he needs proper support.
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brash
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7/15/2022 4:45pm
You could really read between the lines I think with Greg's statement in that PB video.

I have a feeling Discovery has approached him considering his small cameo in the launch video they put out (same with Jack Moir) as two of the big names of the sport. A story needs a hero, what more of a hero is there than the goat of the sport.

Is it a case of not poking the bear? not biting the hand that ultimately feeds you or something more aloof.

I would really like to hear Gee Atherton's take on this as an elder rider and having skin in the game with Atherton bike co.

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krabo83
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AT
7/16/2022 12:16am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2022 12:19am
sspomer wrote:
i took the statement as greg being closer to the UCI and not being as into the union idea as others, but assumption on my part...
i took the statement as greg being closer to the UCI and not being as into the union idea as others, but assumption on my part.

could there be some red bull athlete worry behind the union too (loic's movement)? i DO NOT think red bull limits exposure of non-red bull athletes in the broadcast and even their editorial features, but red bull athletes get a lot of exposure because the broadcast is controlled by red bull (POVs, thumbnails all over youtube and the red bull site, social media posts etc). i don't know how contracts are worked out, but if total # of impressions are part of a deal, i'd imagine those impressions will be lower next year for red bull athletes b/c red bull will not have direct access to the same race weekend content for social channels/youtube.

if i was a red bull athlete, i'd be bummed for sure.
maybe a bit off topic, but in the pb comments someone mentioned some disgruntlement in the syndicate as peaty being absent the last couple races and the riders seem split up during track walks. anyone got any insight?

also they mentioned that greg seems to only be concerned with safety on some features if it benefits him which rubs some riders the wrong way as he‘s their representative.
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