2021 Mountain Bike Team Rumors

Primoz wrote:

Urlpls. Seriously. There was talk of 50 enduro bikes for every DH bikes sold from 'one of the big brands in the industry' quite a while ago, but 500?? Worldwide?! That's insane, seriously. I mean I see no point in owning a DH bike (when my trail/enduro/whatever-that-pedals can do bikeparks), but I didn't think it's THAT bad.

I know that another brand with an on-going strong multi-year world cup presence sell under 800 of their DH bikes a year globally. It's not a big category of business. They spend the $$ on the program as they believe it helps their brand and keeps the enduro and other bikes moving. F1 is a good analogy - custom high dollar program that creates a halo around the more commercial products. Source - brand COO.

I would guess that most brands sell more DH bikes as rental fleet filler than to individual customers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the true F1 of cycling is triathlon. It's almost unlimited in what they can design. DH is a rally series at best (something along the lines of R5 or even lower, old Group N/S2000 category for example) and, like I said previously, will be until we get back to the days of Honda RN-01 and Nico Vouilloz's crazy one-offs. Then we could say it's the F1 of our sport, at least somewhat.

Primoz wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the true F1 of cycling is triathlon. It's almost unlimited in what they can design. DH is a rally series at best (something along the lines of R5 or even lower, old Group N/S2000 category for example) and, like I said previously, will be until we get back to the days of Honda RN-01 and Nico Vouilloz's crazy one-offs. Then we could say it's the F1 of our sport, at least somewhat.

Triathletes are not Cyclists. TT Riders are maybe being referred to? 'Cause it's the Running / Swimming aspect of Tri seeming a bit of a stretch

F1 fever-dreams have run their course - utter nonsense.

Licensing requirements, limitations upon part inventory per season, testing restrictions, curfew requirements, mandated materials and strict dimension figures, tire usage limits, outside supplier limits, entry fee budget requirements, weigh-ins post qualifying, post race, and lastly mandated parts w/ mandated ride heights.

So, still in the context of the direction insisted to be the discipline/sports only future is the intentional omission of small brands only to elevate cost, disproportionate to any real need to consumers.

Does anyone know what is happening with Marshy?

This year he was doing stuff with Commencal Muc off, then I swear I saw him working on a Pivot in a video recently.

brash wrote:

Does anyone know what is happening with Marshy?

This year he was doing stuff with Commencal Muc off, then I swear I saw him working on a Pivot in a video recently.

Great question! (and I'm pretty sure I saw the same vid, maybe one of the recent WynTV episodes?)

LLLLL wrote:

Apparently spec only sell 500 DH bikes a year, they mentioned it on one of the podcasts. So 100 might be a stretch.

Primoz wrote:

Urlpls. Seriously. There was talk of 50 enduro bikes for every DH bikes sold from 'one of the big brands in the industry' quite a while ago, but 500?? Worldwide?! That's insane, seriously. I mean I see no point in owning a DH bike (when my trail/enduro/whatever-that-pedals can do bikeparks), but I didn't think it's THAT bad.

bicycle019 wrote:

I know that another brand with an on-going strong multi-year world cup presence sell under 800 of their DH bikes a year globally. It's not a big category of business. They spend the $$ on the program as they believe it helps their brand and keeps the enduro and other bikes moving. F1 is a good analogy - custom high dollar program that creates a halo around the more commercial products. Source - brand COO.

I would guess that most brands sell more DH bikes as rental fleet filler than to individual customers.

I made a forum to discuss DH bike annual sales. I would love to learn and discuss this topic more, but lets move it from the always entertaining Team Rumors Thread.https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Are-Global-DH-Bikes-Sales-Falling,11040

I am also very curious about Marshy, as he is a very likeable guy and the Syndicate like a family. When I read about his retirement, I thought he was tired of the circuit life, but apparently not... Probably the man has bills to pay and royalties from fenders aren't as big as those on Led Zep songs...

Mx

The Syndicate from the outside looks like a dream team to be a part of. It's very different internally!
Mechanics are some of the lowest paid on the circuit, shit expenses, sorting your own flights and logistics. Shit, if i remember correctly at one point the mechanics were getting paid by the riders they were wrenching for. I can see why Marshy had enough

SteveRumor wrote:

The Syndicate from the outside looks like a dream team to be a part of. It's very different internally!
Mechanics are some of the lowest paid on the circuit, shit expenses, sorting your own flights and logistics. Shit, if i remember correctly at one point the mechanics were getting paid by the riders they were wrenching for. I can see why Marshy had enough

Source for the info?

SteveRumor wrote:

The Syndicate from the outside looks like a dream team to be a part of. It's very different internally!
Mechanics are some of the lowest paid on the circuit, shit expenses, sorting your own flights and logistics. Shit, if i remember correctly at one point the mechanics were getting paid by the riders they were wrenching for. I can see why Marshy had enough

How do you know that? Don’t just talk out of your ass to start shit. If he wasn’t treated well I don’t think he would have stuck with them for 2 decades! Also it isn’t too uncommon for the riders to pay for mechanics... look at Aaron Gwin and John Hall just to mention one. I think the reason Marshy left is because Douggie left too! Douggie is still working in the background but not as a mechanic so maybe Marshy was seeking for some change! Although I have noticed his departure was quite sudden.

SteveRumor wrote:

The Syndicate from the outside looks like a dream team to be a part of. It's very different internally!
Mechanics are some of the lowest paid on the circuit, shit expenses, sorting your own flights and logistics. Shit, if i remember correctly at one point the mechanics were getting paid by the riders they were wrenching for. I can see why Marshy had enough

That seems odd considering they've had guys like Marshy and Doug on the team for a long time...

Primoz wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the true F1 of cycling is triathlon. It's almost unlimited in what they can design. DH is a rally series at best (something along the lines of R5 or even lower, old Group N/S2000 category for example) and, like I said previously, will be until we get back to the days of Honda RN-01 and Nico Vouilloz's crazy one-offs. Then we could say it's the F1 of our sport, at least somewhat.

Hmmm, fundamentally, I disagree with all of your comments here.

Road bikes, in reality, haven't really changed in the last decade or two. Alongside that, the interest and engagement with the top triathletes is *not as high* across social media as the really top downhill riders. So, let's pick apart what you've said.

1) "It's almost unlimited what they can design" > Incorrect. They're pretty much bound by UCI rules, which have a minimum weight limit for starts. https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2017.pdf
2) The WRC is the highest level of production car racing in the world. Toyota have just built a car SPECIFICALLY to then race. R5 rules are still based on a production chassis. In downhill, there are no homologation rules. You don't have to sell any, and you can modify the frame however you want.
3) F1 is also bound by VERY tight technical rules. Yes, Mercedes are the fastest. But, even the average fan couldn't tell the different between cars if you took the liveries off.

As far as I see it, Mountain biking is hitting the part of the curve where all the gains are fairly marginal. The grim donut from the pink site was very interesting, but again, that was on one track and wasn't vs a downhill bike. F1 is about being creative within the rules and finding an advantage. We're never going to truly see that in downhill because the budget isn't (thankfully) 200million€ plus per year. However, teams and manufacturers can push the boundaries, try new things and it's still THE biggest and most watched race series in the world of mountain biking. Enduro will never come close based on its current format.

(Yes, I work on the fringes of F1).

Primoz wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the true F1 of cycling is triathlon. It's almost unlimited in what they can design. DH is a rally series at best (something along the lines of R5 or even lower, old Group N/S2000 category for example) and, like I said previously, will be until we get back to the days of Honda RN-01 and Nico Vouilloz's crazy one-offs. Then we could say it's the F1 of our sport, at least somewhat.

jamesdunford wrote:

Hmmm, fundamentally, I disagree with all of your comments here.

Road bikes, in reality, haven't really changed in the last decade or two. Alongside that, the interest and engagement with the top triathletes is *not as high* across social media as the really top downhill riders. So, let's pick apart what you've said.

1) "It's almost unlimited what they can design" > Incorrect. They're pretty much bound by UCI rules, which have a minimum weight limit for starts. https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2017.pdf
2) The WRC is the highest level of production car racing in the world. Toyota have just built a car SPECIFICALLY to then race. R5 rules are still based on a production chassis. In downhill, there are no homologation rules. You don't have to sell any, and you can modify the frame however you want.
3) F1 is also bound by VERY tight technical rules. Yes, Mercedes are the fastest. But, even the average fan couldn't tell the different between cars if you took the liveries off.

As far as I see it, Mountain biking is hitting the part of the curve where all the gains are fairly marginal. The grim donut from the pink site was very interesting, but again, that was on one track and wasn't vs a downhill bike. F1 is about being creative within the rules and finding an advantage. We're never going to truly see that in downhill because the budget isn't (thankfully) 200million€ plus per year. However, teams and manufacturers can push the boundaries, try new things and it's still THE biggest and most watched race series in the world of mountain biking. Enduro will never come close based on its current format.

(Yes, I work on the fringes of F1).

Replace the dh bikes with enduro bikes and nothing will change. This sport isn't model bike dependent, at least in my personal opinion.

Considering the global sales of dh bikes, maybe they actually should change them.

I had a long answer written regarding the three points, but we're way off topic here. And there's a DH sales numbers thread opened already, maybe this debate would fit there better.

As for the points, I was aiming purely at the technology and uniqueness of the categories, not at the athletes, spectators and the like. And we've been over this, DH race bikes do have to be sold, it's in the UCI rules.

dolface wrote:

I thought the same but then remembered that he left Lapierre to get out from under Bruni's shadow. If Minnaar hasn't made plans to retire I can see Vergier wanting to move somewhere he can be top dog.

You mean Specialized right? Loris was on the gravity team with Loic and Finn that first season after Lapierre before he went to Santa Cruz

Come on Vital, give us an interview with marshy. He is one of the most established guy on the circuit for us folks!

ORTOGONAL555 wrote:

Come on Vital, give us an interview with marshy. He is one of the most established guy on the circuit for us folks!

"NDA"

jefedelosjefes wrote:

I hear Hart is being hired onto Gwin's team as they are lacking a top 10 capable rider.

Is that so

Tracey Hannah not racing world cups after this year. Bummer.

schwaaa31 wrote:

Tracey Hannah not racing world cups after this year. Bummer.

View this post on Instagram

After 9 years racing for the UR Team I have decided to stop racing World Cups. It is not a decision I have taken lightly. Fabien took me on with no expectations and zero pressure. During my first year on the team I won the first round of the World Cup series in South Africa. At the 6th round I crashed hard and was seriously injured, I broke my femur, collarbone and had some internal injuries. Within the same 12 months I would go on to break my collarbone 2 more times. Ever since the moment I had a pro ride I have never wanted and never have given less than the best I possibly can. I have battled fear, injury, disappointment, insecurity, and failure to get up, keep going and be competitive for the podium. I am not in a place to give entirely everything in me to this level of racing anymore. It is an extremely high stress environment and I have high expectations and put pressure on myself at every single race to perform. To be one of the best in the world consistently takes meticulous weekly preparation that lasts over a span of sometimes, several off-seasons. My ultimate goal in racing was to win a World Cup Overall Championship, I have done this and it is something I will never forget. I would have loved to win an elite World Title, every World Champs I have raced I gave the most I could give on that day, in that run, for that moment. My World championship was Cairns 2017, even though I did my absolute best I didn’t take home the gold medal, but I felt the rainbow that day. It has been an amazing 9 years racing World Cups with the team, we have been through extreme highs and lows, injuries and strengths, great times and the worst times, we’ve shed many tears and much champagne. I am so thankful to Fabien for giving me a chance 9 years ago and never giving up when I went through the worst injury of my career, bad results and emotional lows, he is the hardest worker I have ever met and has been the best team manager I could have asked for. Thanks to all the staff past and present for making our dreams possible. 2021 marks my 10th year with the UR Team, were working on a new fun kind of schedule to showcase more riding. Thank you everyone ❤ //@ur_team

A post shared by Tracey Hannah (@littletrace13) on Oct 22, 2020 at 7:27am PDT

I had a feeling over the last few weeks of racing that might be the case. She's fought pretty hard the last few years to keep up to pompom, Rach and tahnee that with the new gen of top five ladies heating up it might be too much. The last few weeks of women's racing have been the best in recent memory with many from the top 10 putting down amazing runs and sending it.

Full retirement announcement from Tracey and team: HERE.

Hart to a new Polygon team? their bike is the Xquareone (square one - warner made a square comment during commentating). with tracey no longer racing WC's Polygon may want a WC racer. unsure about Mick, but he's been racing a long time too. edit: sounds like she's staying with UR racing, who has multiple frame sponsors over the years, but no confirmation if they will continue with Polygon.

jonkranked wrote:

Hart to a new Polygon team? their bike is the Xquareone (square one - warner made a square comment during commentating). with tracey no longer racing WC's Polygon may want a WC racer. unsure about Mick, but he's been racing a long time too. edit: sounds like she's staying with UR racing, who has multiple frame sponsors over the years, but no confirmation if they will continue with Polygon.

I think most people are taking Warner’s Square team comment to mean Cube..

maybe his square comment was a link to the pythagoras theorem. you know, the 2 sides of a rectengular triangle squared equals the third side squared. so the comment was meant for the triangle of the commencals rear end.

jonkranked wrote:

Hart to a new Polygon team? their bike is the Xquareone (square one - warner made a square comment during commentating). with tracey no longer racing WC's Polygon may want a WC racer. unsure about Mick, but he's been racing a long time too. edit: sounds like she's staying with UR racing, who has multiple frame sponsors over the years, but no confirmation if they will continue with Polygon.

RyanMalinchak wrote:

I think most people are taking Warner’s Square team comment to mean Cube..

agreed that was the obvious one at first, but in light of this development it's a possibility. a square is a polygon too, so it could be interpreted either way.

The only other thought on Hart was the comment he made on WynTv where he said "the futures bright" which was an advertising line for the Orange mobile network in the UK (the futures bright, the futures Orange) and there logo was an orange square - so might mean a move to Orange?? A bit left field I guess but who knows!!!

Greg Minnaar signing with red bull

tombola33 wrote:

Greg Minnaar signing with red bull

I think the photo on IG is Brooks helmet, even the hashtag is #givesyouthings not wings and the helmet is also signed...

Where is the mystery predicton poet? I think last year was absent..

Can remember some pretty cool riddles.. This Square comment have got som pretty interesting takes. Makes me miss the rumorRidler