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11/16/2020 2:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/16/2020 2:41 PM

It's not all about the damper tune. Different spring designs will also give a different feel. Moreover, differ t chassis will have a different feel and that's not so easy to tune.

Plus everybody says top riders in fact do run products that are very much off the shelf, plus a custom tune. Compared to MX where you need to spend multiples of tens of thousands to get race spec and even then you're not fully factory spec.

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11/16/2020 4:24 PM

(I'm presuming that Scott Mears is sticking with Danny wherever he goes , given their strong friendship and understanding from a rider/mechanic point of view)

The news that Scott is back racing DH next year potentially opens a can of worms as to who they could be riding for.

There has been a couple of hints dropped regarding Cube and a potential sighting of Scott riding a Cube at Danny's Descend Park (Hamsterley Forest) a couple of weeks back.

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11/16/2020 4:43 PM

swadd1er wrote:

(I'm presuming that Scott Mears is sticking with Danny wherever he goes , given their strong friendship and understanding from a rider/mechanic point of view)

The news that Scott is back racing DH next year potentially opens a can of worms as to who they could be riding for.

There has been a couple of hints dropped regarding Cube and a potential sighting of Scott riding a Cube at Danny's Descend Park (Hamsterley Forest) a couple of weeks back.

There always needs to be at least one "Worst kept secret of the year" and Danny on cube seems to be it.

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11/17/2020 5:36 AM

Primoz wrote:

It's not all about the damper tune. Different spring designs will also give a different feel. Moreover, differ t chassis will have a different feel and that's not so easy to tune.

Plus everybody says top riders in fact do run products that are very much off the shelf, plus a custom tune. Compared to MX where you need to spend multiples of tens of thousands to get race spec and even then you're not fully factory spec.

It's like the whole "Gwinn does not run more pressure than normal guys on his fork" deal. Like, ok Jordi, if you want to insist on that all, but they are doing something to his forks, because where everybody else's come close to bottoming out, Gwinn is using about half his travel.

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11/17/2020 5:41 AM

That's what compression settings are for.

It makes zero sense to run stiff as rock springs when you can deal with that with the damper. A stiff spring will just give you a really harsh ride over the small bumps and give you bottom out resistance. A progressive spring or a closed off compression circuit will give you support on hard hits going deep into the travel, but still retain small bump performance.

That and it makes sense to run at least some sag. Which is not possible with an overly stiff spring.

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11/17/2020 5:44 AM

Do we need a new thread for suspension setting rumors?

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11/17/2020 7:55 AM

I do believe Loris going to Trek is already a done deal. They are due a new Session and, to showcase the spanking new bike, they need a rider that: can consistently get podiums, is free by Jan. 1, 2020, and has no problems running SRAM/RS.

The only ones available at the moment who potentially fit these criteria are Vali Hoell and Loris Vergier (who won a lot of junior events on Lapierre and, you guessed it, SRAM/RS).


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11/17/2020 1:31 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/18/2020 6:24 AM

Reece Wilson staying with trek


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11/18/2020 1:16 AM

I wonder if Santa Cruz would have done a photoshoot with Loris Vergier on the new Bullit if he is going too leave in a couple of weeks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHst-rNHVMK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

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11/18/2020 2:14 AM

That was filmed in the summer, and to be honest if I were Santa I'd milk it as long as I can. That guy has massive untapped marketing potential, and that spot does not work half as well without him (who else has a track walk soundboard to their name??).

The Loris thing is kinda weird to me: I understand that he wanted to get out of Loic's shadown and he landed right under Minnaar's, but with his progression he would go into 2021 as SC's top dog, and no other top brand has a ride as uncontested n°1. If it is SC needing to cut budget, I can't see how it is not Luca Shaw: on track he is close but not over Loris, and outside he is not even half as marketable.

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11/18/2020 2:18 AM

Primoz wrote:

That's what compression settings are for.

It makes zero sense to run stiff as rock springs when you can deal with that with the damper. A stiff spring will just give you a really harsh ride over the small bumps and give you bottom out resistance. A progressive spring or a closed off compression circuit will give you support on hard hits going deep into the travel, but still retain small bump performance.

That and it makes sense to run at least some sag. Which is not possible with an overly stiff spring.

True, but we all know how compression works, and when you watch the Dialed videos, when Jordi's testing his fork (rebound and so on), it does not look like a fully cranked compression. It does look like the rebound is set to 200, but the fork sinks pretty easy/not markedly stiffer than other pros. He's gotta have some sort of valving different to the rest, it is too different for it to be just run of the mill cranked compression, but with how much secrecy the guy has I guess we will never know.

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11/18/2020 3:06 AM

JoseMPM wrote:

That was filmed in the summer, and to be honest if I were Santa I'd milk it as long as I can. That guy has massive untapped marketing potential, and that spot does not work half as well without him (who else has a track walk soundboard to their name??).

The Loris thing is kinda weird to me: I understand that he wanted to get out of Loic's shadown and he landed right under Minnaar's, but with his progression he would go into 2021 as SC's top dog, and no other top brand has a ride as uncontested n°1. If it is SC needing to cut budget, I can't see how it is not Luca Shaw: on track he is close but not over Loris, and outside he is not even half as marketable.

True.

I also wonder why they would cut budgets now. In the last few years I saw so many Santa Cruz bikes - much more as before. Surely, that's mainly what I saw in Central Europe but a friend was in Whistler last year (or two years ago) and noticed the same thing. This year the whole bike industry is pretty much sold out. SC was late in the e-bike market but I wonder if this has a serious negative impact.

If they let Loris go they have to look for another top rider.

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11/18/2020 4:20 AM

JoseMPM wrote:

That was filmed in the summer, and to be honest if I were Santa I'd milk it as long as I can. That guy has massive untapped marketing potential, and that spot does not work half as well without him (who else has a track walk soundboard to their name??).

The Loris thing is kinda weird to me: I understand that he wanted to get out of Loic's shadown and he landed right under Minnaar's, but with his progression he would go into 2021 as SC's top dog, and no other top brand has a ride as uncontested n°1. If it is SC needing to cut budget, I can't see how it is not Luca Shaw: on track he is close but not over Loris, and outside he is not even half as marketable.

noox wrote:

True.

I also wonder why they would cut budgets now. In the last few years I saw so many Santa Cruz bikes - much more as before. Surely, that's mainly what I saw in Central Europe but a friend was in Whistler last year (or two years ago) and noticed the same thing. This year the whole bike industry is pretty much sold out. SC was late in the e-bike market but I wonder if this has a serious negative impact.

If they let Loris go they have to look for another top rider.

It may be less about wanting to let him go than him wanting to move on. On trek as long as he gets results he’ll just have to race. There will be very little pressure for much team media compared to what he was doing syndicate/fox which might be the most heavily marketed of all the trade teams

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11/18/2020 6:03 AM

noox wrote:

True.

I also wonder why they would cut budgets now. In the last few years I saw so many Santa Cruz bikes - much more as before. Surely, that's mainly what I saw in Central Europe but a friend was in Whistler last year (or two years ago) and noticed the same thing. This year the whole bike industry is pretty much sold out. SC was late in the e-bike market but I wonder if this has a serious negative impact.

If they let Loris go they have to look for another top rider.

Why a top rider? I would go with a mid pack rider that has potential. Between having Minnar and Peaty there is no better program for bringing a young rider to their full potential, Loris and Luca are a great examples of this. Plus, Minnar showed us this season that he is still as fast as anyone and as long as he still has that competitive drive he can easily carry a team if needed.

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11/18/2020 6:13 AM

millsr4 wrote:

Why a top rider? I would go with a mid pack rider that has potential. Between having Minnar and Peaty there is no better program for bringing a young rider to their full potential, Loris and Luca are a great examples of this. Plus, Minnar showed us this season that he is still as fast as anyone and as long as he still has that competitive drive he can easily carry a team if needed.

The Syndicate team has had Top 5 riders for a long time now. When they brought Loris and Luca Minnaar was still on top. He is still on top, but the question is for how long. Also injuries are a bigger issue for older riders.

But surely there are a lot of riders who showed potential recently. So maybe they go that way.

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11/18/2020 6:41 AM

Here's the official presentation of Reece Wilson's new bike and confirmation that Reece is staying with Trek Factory Racing for the "foreseeable":
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The perfect complement to an iconic kit

The only thing nearly as cool as winning a world championship is riding the custom bike. World champions have shown off some truly impressive, one-of-a-kind rides in the past (we’re obviously partial to Mads Pedersen’s), and almost all of them have been prominently emblazoned with the illustrious five rainbow stripes.

However, after Reece Wilson won the 2020 downhill world championship in Austria this past October, Trek decided to do something different with his Session. Instead of shouting Wilson’s win, the bike more subtly places the world champion stripes just below the seatpost. The rest of the bike is covered in a glitter-flecked off-white.

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Trek product designer Brian Lindstrom says the understated look is deliberate.

“For the UCI World Champ bike, the goal was to have a subtle bike design that Reece could really enjoy up close while working with the bold World Champ kit he will be wearing,” Lindstrom says, “as opposed to creating something that would compete with the boldness of the kit.”
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In other words, because Wilson will be wearing the rainbow stripes, there was no reason to overdo a good thing. Instead, his Session is clean — a projection of mountain biking royalty as opposed to a statement.
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Reece re-signs with Trek

The new bike is only the second bit of good news for Wilson and Trek this week. Wilson will be competing for championships under the Trek banner for the foreseeable future after recently re-signing with the team.

“I’m thrilled to have re-signed with Trek,” Wilson said. “The team is a tight family who do a great job of making the riders feel special while providing a structure for great performance. I’m excited to build on the recipe this winter and see where I can go.”

Wilson, from Scotland, is just 24 years old, and also had a top 10 finish in last year’s World Cup event in Lenzerheide, Switzerland.

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Enjoy, Reece!

Stay tuned for more updates from the DH team, as roster and team info are launched in the coming months!

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11/18/2020 6:51 AM

So Trek scrambled to keep him on the team then.

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11/18/2020 6:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/29/2020 11:02 AM

Loris is the natural #1 of the SCS going into the future, Minnaar is the 'daddy' of the team, but performance wise, regardless of Minnaar's excellent results in Lousa, it's Loris that's the future top dog. Plus, like it was mentioned, all the experience in Greg and Steve. There are tons of Santa Cruz bikes out there as noted (I've been noticing it too) and I don't think them going electric 'this late' is an issue. They are part of a group that does cover electric bikes as well (Focus) so honestly it was kinda weird to me to even see electric Santa Cruzes, I kinda thought they would keep it pure? So money can't really be an issue, they are a highly performing brand, if they aren't doing something wrong.

But nevertheless, I'm thinking lately if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, surely it can't be a goose?? Maybe he doesn't feel like he fits in with the syndicate? Though one would wonder if that wouldn't affect his results then...



@JoseMPM You can have a progressive compression tune, so for the really hard hits to have a lot of resistance, which you wouldn't really see under Jordi's hands. I don't reallly know what they run, but like I said, it makse ZERO sense to me to solve damping issues by running an overly stiff spring. There is a time and a place for an overly stiff spring.

And Jure is having an aneurysm. Hey Jure :D
(Besides being very badly implemented, private messages actually don't work for me here on Vital at this moment..)

EDIT: just to add (I was told it might be confusing), this is not in any relation to Jure Žabjek, it's a different Jure who was pissed (thus the aneurysm part) about me being a part of a lot of off-topic posts in this thread.

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11/18/2020 7:29 AM

Can we get a more tough guy, thuggish pic of Reeco for us rowdy, heavy metal DH fanboys? Something a little less Steve Urkel? :D

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Trouble Maker. Here to spit truth in the form of sarcasm.

11/18/2020 7:33 AM

danposs86 wrote:

So Trek scrambled to keep him on the team then.

I have a feeling that his contract was up at the end of the season and winning the worlds changed the negotiating a bit.. Trek didn't do what Specialized did a few years back with Kate Courtney. Announced she wouldn't be back, commit to another rider, and then she wins the worlds..

The big question now is will Trek open up the checkbook to have 2 big names? I think Loris can easily be top dog at SCS.. Greg may have some good finishes still in him, but Loris will be more consistent and the man in the near future..

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11/18/2020 7:41 AM

She wins the world champs, leaves Specialized and wins the overall the next year. We know what Reece has to do now, don't we? No pressure. smile

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11/18/2020 8:16 AM

How about Benoit Coulanges being the frenchie signing with Trek not Loris

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11/18/2020 9:12 AM

Primoz wrote:

She wins the world champs, leaves Specialized and wins the overall the next year. We know what Reece has to do now, don't we? No pressure. smile

I think Specialized already committed to someone else and Kate's price went up after the Worlds win.. If Reece can at least back up that win with some solid finishes, he'll be in good shape... And a win like that is usually what it takes to get over the mental barrier...

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11/18/2020 1:37 PM

noox wrote:

True.

I also wonder why they would cut budgets now. In the last few years I saw so many Santa Cruz bikes - much more as before. Surely, that's mainly what I saw in Central Europe but a friend was in Whistler last year (or two years ago) and noticed the same thing. This year the whole bike industry is pretty much sold out. SC was late in the e-bike market but I wonder if this has a serious negative impact.

If they let Loris go they have to look for another top rider.

millsr4 wrote:

Why a top rider? I would go with a mid pack rider that has potential. Between having Minnar and Peaty there is no better program for bringing a young rider to their full potential, Loris and Luca are a great examples of this. Plus, Minnar showed us this season that he is still as fast as anyone and as long as he still has that competitive drive he can easily carry a team if needed.

noox wrote:

The Syndicate team has had Top 5 riders for a long time now. When they brought Loris and Luca Minnaar was still on top. He is still on top, but the question is for how long. Also injuries are a bigger issue for older riders.

But surely there are a lot of riders who showed potential recently. So maybe they go that way.

Peary wants Kade on the Syndicate.

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11/18/2020 1:53 PM

millsr4 wrote:

Why a top rider? I would go with a mid pack rider that has potential. Between having Minnar and Peaty there is no better program for bringing a young rider to their full potential, Loris and Luca are a great examples of this. Plus, Minnar showed us this season that he is still as fast as anyone and as long as he still has that competitive drive he can easily carry a team if needed.

noox wrote:

The Syndicate team has had Top 5 riders for a long time now. When they brought Loris and Luca Minnaar was still on top. He is still on top, but the question is for how long. Also injuries are a bigger issue for older riders.

But surely there are a lot of riders who showed potential recently. So maybe they go that way.

gibbon wrote:

Peary wants Kade on the Syndicate.

I think kade will stay this year though, only because he was commenting “glad to hear matey, let’s fuck up another year” on the Reece Wilson’s post about resigning.

But There surly trek are going to let someone go, if they are going to bring in a fast frenchy, if they do that is. And you would think S/C would want a replacement if loris leaves.

But I had a feeling Charlie Harrison might leave trek.

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11/18/2020 1:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/18/2020 1:59 PM

bubb wrote:

How about Benoit Coulanges being the frenchie signing with Trek not Loris

My thought too. Asked on "the" French mtb forum and he's confirmed (by rumor, between the lines😉) as moving. He shined this season and appeared very consistant for tops 20 and better

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11/18/2020 4:54 PM

listened to bulldogs gypsy tales podcast and he said he hasn't signed for next year.....he's hoping to sign with ms mondraker again tho.

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11/18/2020 5:15 PM

trex84 wrote:

listened to bulldogs gypsy tales podcast and he said he hasn't signed for next year.....he's hoping to sign with ms mondraker again tho.

This. He seems to excel in that set up. It was wild how fast he dropped off when he went to GT from a top rider and then came right back swinging again when he got back to Mondraker. With two years of worth of two very different comebacks, I hope he's in the best position he can be in for next season.

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11/18/2020 5:44 PM

trex84 wrote:

listened to bulldogs gypsy tales podcast and he said he hasn't signed for next year.....he's hoping to sign with ms mondraker again tho.

metadave wrote:

This. He seems to excel in that set up. It was wild how fast he dropped off when he went to GT from a top rider and then came right back swinging again when he got back to Mondraker. With two years of worth of two very different comebacks, I hope he's in the best position he can be in for next season.

seriously after all he's been through I hope he has an epic season next year...on a mondraker. There is not one person who deserves it more than Brook, such an honest down to earth dude.

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11/18/2020 6:22 PM

trex84 wrote:

seriously after all he's been through I hope he has an epic season next year...on a mondraker. There is not one person who deserves it more than Brook, such an honest down to earth dude.

I agree.

His crash, the controversy behind his rescue, the severity of his injury, his road to recovery, and the fact that he rides pretty much with the same intensity as he did before, is a story for the ages, worth much more to mountain biking than a world championship, in my humble opinion.

And besides, with rumors of Laurie leaving, which other top rider would Mondraker be left with?

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