2020 Mountain Bike Team Rumors

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10/20/2019 1:19 PM

Maybe making it mandatory isn’t the right way to go, but I think part of the issue is that because the women’s racing isn’t as popular, there is a smaller quota and fewer riders overall, in a male dominated sport, it makes it especially hard for women coming up to get support as the return on investment for sponsors and teams is just not there. So yeah I guess it is a bit of a catch 22 but if we want the women’s side of the sport to grow, something has to be done. I don’t think it would be a bad thing for teams to be required to sponsor or at least support a junior rider as well, it can only help for younger riders to be exposed to a proper support structure from an early age.

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10/20/2019 3:20 PM

From what I've seen, there are less women racing at the world cup level because there are less women racing at the local level. I participated in a race that was called the "Trail Bike Downhill." Think of it as a one stage enduro, before the EWS existed. As long as your bike was not a full blown DH race rig, you could enter. There were 35-40 total participants across a number of classes. Less than 5 of them were women.

I also took a mountain biking class in college and only one third of the class were women, and about half of those were only there with their boyfriends.

The only lasting way to get more women racing in the World Cup is to get more women riding mountain bikes. Some of those who ride will want to race locally. Some who race locally will want to expand their racing opportunities nationally. Some who race nationally will want to race the WC. Of those, some will actually have the skills to do it. Honestly, its the same with the men, you just have a much, much larger pool of riders to draw from.

But there is one big obstacle to getting women to ride mountain bikes. One that I have yet to see anyone on any MTB forum or comment section mention. They have to want to try it, and then they have to like it enough to spend their time and money on it. Forcing all WC teams to sign on a female racer will do nothing to convince women to want to spend time and money on biking.

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10/20/2019 5:00 PM

Sonofbovril2 wrote:

I think it should be mandatory for every team to have at least one female rider

Stiksandstones wrote:

Mandatory? really?

Capricorn wrote:

Sonofbovril was posing a suggestion. You seem shocked. care to explain/mansplain why you make it sound like it's a problem a multibillion dollar industry cannot resolve?

I am not shocked, i've heard nuttier ideas.

We shouldn't force teams to sign anyone, there are about 30 registered trade teams in the UCI, there are women on I think 14 of those teams, so almost half of the teams have recognized the benefits of having women on their programs.

I am co-team manager for SRAM TLD RACING, Vali Holl's race program and these benefits aren't just to practice some moral licensing, it is because she is very marketable, very good with product development, insane to watch on a bike, fun to be around and has a growing and engaged fan base just to name a few reasons.

There are plenty of guys, masters, juniors and women that do not have the support they need to live the dream of being a world cup DH racer, there are not many spots to go around in the "multi billion dollar industry" (I assume you just mean the bicycle business, one that probably 90% of doesn't pay any attention to DH, or make products for that market).

These discussions never end well, you seem upset, especially with your "mansplaining" comment, but as someone who supports dozens of female athletes in sport, for the last 30 yrs-I would have said the same comment if someone said "Make it mandatory to have a junior, Mandatory to have a masters, Mandatory to have a pro dude from USA" etc....I only have an issue with teams being FORCED to do something they don't want to do when it comes to rider selection.

Flame on.



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10/20/2019 5:02 PM

bizutch wrote:

I can dig up tons of pros riding in TLD moto gear too. Pro DH guys run what they have in the closet for moto and Dainese doesn't make moto kit.

JamesR_2026 wrote:

Troy did specific social media posts to show off his TLD Adidas kit and has been doing promo stuff with the Australian TLD distributor (Lusty Industries) recently. Safe to call this one confirmed!

Sonofbovril2 wrote:

Maybe Canyon is letting their riders pick their own clothing sponsors ala syndicate to provide them more paycheck opportunities?

I could chime in on this topic, but, I am going to wait about 9 weeks.

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10/20/2019 5:14 PM

Stiksandstones wrote:

Mandatory? really?

Capricorn wrote:

Sonofbovril was posing a suggestion. You seem shocked. care to explain/mansplain why you make it sound like it's a problem a multibillion dollar industry cannot resolve?

Stiksandstones wrote:

I am not shocked, i've heard nuttier ideas.

We shouldn't force teams to sign anyone, there are about 30 registered trade teams in the UCI, there are women on I think 14 of those teams, so almost half of the teams have recognized the benefits of having women on their programs.

I am co-team manager for SRAM TLD RACING, Vali Holl's race program and these benefits aren't just to practice some moral licensing, it is because she is very marketable, very good with product development, insane to watch on a bike, fun to be around and has a growing and engaged fan base just to name a few reasons.

There are plenty of guys, masters, juniors and women that do not have the support they need to live the dream of being a world cup DH racer, there are not many spots to go around in the "multi billion dollar industry" (I assume you just mean the bicycle business, one that probably 90% of doesn't pay any attention to DH, or make products for that market).

These discussions never end well, you seem upset, especially with your "mansplaining" comment, but as someone who supports dozens of female athletes in sport, for the last 30 yrs-I would have said the same comment if someone said "Make it mandatory to have a junior, Mandatory to have a masters, Mandatory to have a pro dude from USA" etc....I only have an issue with teams being FORCED to do something they don't want to do when it comes to rider selection.

Flame on.



No flame, legit question.

What is the main driver for a team now days to race WCDH, let's face it.... it isn't to sell DH bikes anymore.

Is it like F1, where it's just pushing the technical boundaries of the sport for future R&D and product dev? Is it just the love for the sport? Is there any way to actually return a profit? I'm asking you as a team manager here.

I always thought to myself If I won the lotto and was a multi gazzilionaire I'd start a WC team because of my passion for the sport, but as a businessman I couldn't see the return in it.

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10/20/2019 10:23 PM

With riders riding production looking and production colored bikes, DH can not be the F1 of mountain biking. Honda brought a bit of F1 flair to the table, Nico Vouilloz did the same in Vprocess days, but that's more or less it. Currently DH is looking more like a GT1 series, where cars were insanely fast, but still had to be sold (911 GT1 and CLK GTR sold in like 20 samples, there was only one TS010 and R390 sold on the other hand). We have very specific bikes for it (XXL V10 for example?), but those are still sold to ordinary mortals.

For DH to reach F1 status riders would have to run a different prototype bike at each track, assembled using crazy ideas. One-off upside down forks, linkage forks in the front, gearboxes, custom geometries, etc. But given the way the industry is sponsored (from within), there is no way in that happening.

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10/20/2019 10:30 PM

Primoz wrote:

Could it, maybe, POSSIBLY, be because they are not paid enough to be able to do it full time instead of having a day job at the side? And that the competition and paychecks aren't that good because there is such a small field? And that there are also not more because of all of that, since it doesn't make sense to try and make it when there are so few places available to make it?

Is it possible that this is a catch-22 of sorts (can't have one without the other and vice versa)? Is it possible a mandatory girl on each trade team would improve this by giving at least... top 10 or 15 girls a factory ride (because everybody would want the best option to race for them)?

Yeah, it puts pressure on the teams. Yeah, girls aren't as marketable as guys are, racing wise. Honestly, racing might not be the best marketing thing as well. But nevertheless, regardless of the solution (no, mandatory girl quotas probably aren't the best solution), something probably should be done to improve the number and quality of girls racing.

And a majority of the men who are racing are working a day job...

Funny thing .. All these attempts to make everything equal haven't brought up the participation levels... Payouts are the same, yet the number of female racers hasn't changed dramatically...

It would be interesting if we could see the percentage of women racers vs women who ride and compare that same percentage to the men... I suspect that a similar percentage of men race vs. ride but there is still more men that ride.. Equal payouts only affect a small number of people.

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10/21/2019 12:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 12:10 AM

Let get back to rumors. What news is the stikman hinting about?

Edith: typo

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10/21/2019 12:36 AM

Well, it doesn't have to be mandatory for a race team participating to a UCI event but it could be a requirement for a TRADE TEAM. These teams receive a preferred treatment from UCI, it sounds normal they would also have to bring some value to the UCI such as developing the sport with some juniors and helping the sport to progress. There are already many requirements for a trade team, this one doesn't sound outrageous.
Keep in mind UCI receives funding from national federations and national federations receive (most of the time) funding from national government aka people taxes (and 50% of them are women). UCI rules are politic (in the most virtuous meaning), they are supposed to support an equal and fair world we want to live in. It's not just a product with some marketing. It's fine if teams don't want or can't support female riders but they don't have to be a trade team.
Social change and progress don't always appear as a free market organic outcome, it needs some impulsion.

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10/21/2019 2:45 AM

Primoz wrote:

Could it, maybe, POSSIBLY, be because they are not paid enough to be able to do it full time instead of having a day job at the side? And that the competition and paychecks aren't that good because there is such a small field? And that there are also not more because of all of that, since it doesn't make sense to try and make it when there are so few places available to make it?

Is it possible that this is a catch-22 of sorts (can't have one without the other and vice versa)? Is it possible a mandatory girl on each trade team would improve this by giving at least... top 10 or 15 girls a factory ride (because everybody would want the best option to race for them)?

Yeah, it puts pressure on the teams. Yeah, girls aren't as marketable as guys are, racing wise. Honestly, racing might not be the best marketing thing as well. But nevertheless, regardless of the solution (no, mandatory girl quotas probably aren't the best solution), something probably should be done to improve the number and quality of girls racing.

I take care of the marketing for a sport brand in France which is active in the Mountain sports and Bike sports. We are not a racing brand but even for what we are looking for, finding a girl that has a decent level, and that is engaged in the sport is very very difficult.
I can find 20 French guys just scrolling on IG with decent level, taking time to build and feeding their IG accounts and none of these would get much more than co-factory deals or at best a small gear budget. In the Mountain Sports it is not as much of a problem but it is also more complicated to find women ambassadors than men. Now what is interesting is that I personally know probably 15/20 girls being very active Skier/Alpinist/Climber while I know 4/5 grils really into their MTB, not even DH mtb. So could it somehow explain why it is easier for me to find Mountain Athletes rather than MTB athletes ?
If the sport is a small niche (which DH is, let alone Women DH) you can't expect to have that many people deserving a full time pay because that market is too small to finance it. Remember sponsoring is Marketing, marketing is financed by the margin made on products sold to that said market. or if you are lucky and your sport is bad-ass (like DH) you can manage to get some corporate financing as it could help them make whatever they are selling cooler to the mass-market. Nobody cries because almost no athletes in Kayak or Sabre Fencing make a living out of it, yet those sports are probably still bigger than women DH. One could even argue that looking at BMX Racing very few manage to make a living out of it compared to DH Mtb (men and women) while the number of people taking part in the sport and competitions is probably bigger than DH.
So no, making girls mandatory won't help the sport, it is utter nonsense. Want to see more girls at DH WC level ? Well find the thing to make more girls engage into the sport and those numbers will naturally grow.

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10/21/2019 2:59 AM

tmano2 wrote:

why the hell should it be mandatory?
if it would be coll to see more girls race? yes, but it never should be mandatory for a team to have a girl as it is not for any other class.
there simply aren't as many girls interested in racing/riding as there is guys, nor is the field as competitive, percentage wise the 1 to 10 girl time diference in a wc is equal to 1 to 60 guy

Primoz wrote:

Could it, maybe, POSSIBLY, be because they are not paid enough to be able to do it full time instead of having a day job at the side? And that the competition and paychecks aren't that good because there is such a small field? And that there are also not more because of all of that, since it doesn't make sense to try and make it when there are so few places available to make it?

Is it possible that this is a catch-22 of sorts (can't have one without the other and vice versa)? Is it possible a mandatory girl on each trade team would improve this by giving at least... top 10 or 15 girls a factory ride (because everybody would want the best option to race for them)?

Yeah, it puts pressure on the teams. Yeah, girls aren't as marketable as guys are, racing wise. Honestly, racing might not be the best marketing thing as well. But nevertheless, regardless of the solution (no, mandatory girl quotas probably aren't the best solution), something probably should be done to improve the number and quality of girls racing.

Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:

I take care of the marketing for a sport brand in France which is active in the Mountain sports and Bike sports. We are not a racing brand but even for what we are looking for, finding a girl that has a decent level, and that is engaged in the sport is very very difficult.
I can find 20 French guys just scrolling on IG with decent level, taking time to build and feeding their IG accounts and none of these would get much more than co-factory deals or at best a small gear budget. In the Mountain Sports it is not as much of a problem but it is also more complicated to find women ambassadors than men. Now what is interesting is that I personally know probably 15/20 girls being very active Skier/Alpinist/Climber while I know 4/5 grils really into their MTB, not even DH mtb. So could it somehow explain why it is easier for me to find Mountain Athletes rather than MTB athletes ?
If the sport is a small niche (which DH is, let alone Women DH) you can't expect to have that many people deserving a full time pay because that market is too small to finance it. Remember sponsoring is Marketing, marketing is financed by the margin made on products sold to that said market. or if you are lucky and your sport is bad-ass (like DH) you can manage to get some corporate financing as it could help them make whatever they are selling cooler to the mass-market. Nobody cries because almost no athletes in Kayak or Sabre Fencing make a living out of it, yet those sports are probably still bigger than women DH. One could even argue that looking at BMX Racing very few manage to make a living out of it compared to DH Mtb (men and women) while the number of people taking part in the sport and competitions is probably bigger than DH.
So no, making girls mandatory won't help the sport, it is utter nonsense. Want to see more girls at DH WC level ? Well find the thing to make more girls engage into the sport and those numbers will naturally grow.

Very informative, thank you 👍🏻

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10/21/2019 3:56 AM

This past weekend happened the selection of boys from YT YOUNG TALENT at Spain, anyone know the news? what will team 2020 look like?

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#goADHV

10/21/2019 6:57 AM

Stiksandstones wrote:

I am not shocked, i've heard nuttier ideas.

We shouldn't force teams to sign anyone, there are about 30 registered trade teams in the UCI, there are women on I think 14 of those teams, so almost half of the teams have recognized the benefits of having women on their programs.

I am co-team manager for SRAM TLD RACING, Vali Holl's race program and these benefits aren't just to practice some moral licensing, it is because she is very marketable, very good with product development, insane to watch on a bike, fun to be around and has a growing and engaged fan base just to name a few reasons.

There are plenty of guys, masters, juniors and women that do not have the support they need to live the dream of being a world cup DH racer, there are not many spots to go around in the "multi billion dollar industry" (I assume you just mean the bicycle business, one that probably 90% of doesn't pay any attention to DH, or make products for that market).

These discussions never end well, you seem upset, especially with your "mansplaining" comment, but as someone who supports dozens of female athletes in sport, for the last 30 yrs-I would have said the same comment if someone said "Make it mandatory to have a junior, Mandatory to have a masters, Mandatory to have a pro dude from USA" etc....I only have an issue with teams being FORCED to do something they don't want to do when it comes to rider selection.

Flame on.



"...Masters..." Yup. Mandatory Masters on each team. Cause us old dudes got seriously massive social media following, are major influencers of purchases for people who actually have jobs... and we sell the heck out of the stuff that helps our bunions & gout & glaucoma & multifocal corrective lenses... and padding for falling down. We are the influencers of the beer ride, the bottle opener built into the game products... all the greatest stuff.

Not really. Just wanted to type a lot of horse crap while I'm on the toilet.

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Trouble Maker. Here to spit truth in the form of sarcasm.

10/21/2019 10:28 AM

bizutch wrote:

"...Masters..." Yup. Mandatory Masters on each team. Cause us old dudes got seriously massive social media following, are major influencers of purchases for people who actually have jobs... and we sell the heck out of the stuff that helps our bunions & gout & glaucoma & multifocal corrective lenses... and padding for falling down. We are the influencers of the beer ride, the bottle opener built into the game products... all the greatest stuff.

Not really. Just wanted to type a lot of horse crap while I'm on the toilet.

Well, we do have the most disposable income, theoretically. You'd think someone would want to tap into that

What jersey cut is gonna show off my dad-bod best?
Who's the best ortho in my city?
Who can do a STAT cardiology clearance on race week?

Marketing opportunities are endless.

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10/21/2019 12:59 PM

SB14 wrote:

Let get back to rumors. What news is the stikman hinting about?

Edith: typo

That Canyon have signed a very high profile female rider.

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10/21/2019 1:21 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 4:33 PM

faircloth to marzocchi?

The latest purple rampage product release had a photo of Brendan and his name listed, but was then removed 10 min later.

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10/21/2019 1:44 PM

SB14 wrote:

Let get back to rumors. What news is the stikman hinting about?

Edith: typo

Dickscruttock wrote:

That Canyon have signed a very high profile female rider.

Hmmmm, I wonder if that is to the factory team or on a Frame Only sponsor ship. I think someone mentioned earlier seeing someone visiting the Canyon factory if I recall ;-)

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10/21/2019 2:03 PM

Let's start to see who is at the end of their contract?

I'm especially interested in
- Jack Moir: the Shark is ready for new waters
- Thibaut Daprella: upcoming top Elite to grab, it would be a great asset for an upcoming team
- Veronika Widmann: the best value is female DH racing
- D. Trummer: will he get a decent full factory service?
- G. Williamson: he has the most Gucci bike and kit and he could maybe benefit from a bigger structure: Gucci gang

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10/21/2019 2:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 2:34 PM

I need to correct you on bit above: we can all agree that every team needs a Masters. As in Wyn Masters or Eddie Masters. Imagine if every team had a person like that, the world would be a better place. We all know that. It is an obvious thing.

Masters of us puppets, keep pulling our striiiiiings!

Mx

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10/21/2019 4:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/22/2019 12:20 AM

garretttollette wrote:

faircloth to marzocchi?

The latest purple rampage product release had a photo of Brendan and his name listed, but was then removed 10 min later.

Looks surprising, may be a one shot for the rampage? And a special prime for him helping marzocchi/fox to sell these purple lowers..

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10/21/2019 8:15 PM

commencal is making skis. that's random.
https://www.commencalusa.com/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=2080378

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10/21/2019 10:03 PM

Well the older ones were a Faction collab, so only a branding excercise.

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10/22/2019 4:48 AM

garretttollette wrote:

faircloth to marzocchi?

The latest purple rampage product release had a photo of Brendan and his name listed, but was then removed 10 min later.

clem-mk wrote:

Looks surprising, may be a one shot for the rampage? And a special prime for him helping marzocchi/fox to sell these purple lowers..

Fox and Marzocchi are the same company so possibly a special free ride project?

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Snoopin around lookin for the best trails and sketchiest lines

10/22/2019 5:31 AM

human powered suicide machine wrote:

Let's start to see who is at the end of their contract?

I'm especially interested in
- Jack Moir: the Shark is ready for new waters
- Thibaut Daprella: upcoming top Elite to grab, it would be a great asset for an upcoming team
- Veronika Widmann: the best value is female DH racing
- D. Trummer: will he get a decent full factory service?
- G. Williamson: he has the most Gucci bike and kit and he could maybe benefit from a bigger structure: Gucci gang

D. Trummer to cannondale factory racing

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10/22/2019 11:08 AM

human powered suicide machine wrote:

Let's start to see who is at the end of their contract?

I'm especially interested in
- Jack Moir: the Shark is ready for new waters
- Thibaut Daprella: upcoming top Elite to grab, it would be a great asset for an upcoming team
- Veronika Widmann: the best value is female DH racing
- D. Trummer: will he get a decent full factory service?
- G. Williamson: he has the most Gucci bike and kit and he could maybe benefit from a bigger structure: Gucci gang

That's good list!

2 of the 5 are YT and with Martin (I think?) still running the Mob and Vali likely a podium next year maybe a whole new structure?

Women-focused, up-and coming, relatively cheap (there's a whole other discussion about why that's the case) team.

How about this?
- Höll
- Widmann*
- One junior woman tbd

I don't see Commencal letting Daprela get away so maybe he and Vidal are the downhill team with EWS being Antoine's main focus?


*And yes,I know Widmann is likely sticking with Insync and the bike they've said they're building


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10/23/2019 12:38 AM

human powered suicide machine wrote:

Let's start to see who is at the end of their contract?

I'm especially interested in
- Jack Moir: the Shark is ready for new waters
- Thibaut Daprella: upcoming top Elite to grab, it would be a great asset for an upcoming team
- Veronika Widmann: the best value is female DH racing
- D. Trummer: will he get a decent full factory service?
- G. Williamson: he has the most Gucci bike and kit and he could maybe benefit from a bigger structure: Gucci gang

dolface wrote:

That's good list!

2 of the 5 are YT and with Martin (I think?) still running the Mob and Vali likely a podium next year maybe a whole new structure?

Women-focused, up-and coming, relatively cheap (there's a whole other discussion about why that's the case) team.

How about this?
- Höll
- Widmann*
- One junior woman tbd

I don't see Commencal letting Daprela get away so maybe he and Vidal are the downhill team with EWS being Antoine's main focus?


*And yes,I know Widmann is likely sticking with Insync and the bike they've said they're building


About Daprela I agree with you and considering how Max has been good at discovering talents and keeping them with him i doubt he will let him go ... but ... His Elite Team is already quite full with Thirion, Pierron and Nicole, having 3 Elite men and 1 Elite Women seems like unlikely. I don't see Thirion leaving yet and I don't think Max would be firing him, their Team is quite familly like considering the Ruffin brothers are still both in the structure while not having brilliant results so I'd consider Thirion safe until he decides to retire. As for the others, Nicole and Pierron are winning horse so Max will keep them and both of them don't seem likely to leave, Commencal kept supporting Nicole while she was mostly out for the past 2 seasons so that would be quite ungrateful from her to then pick another team, Pierron is doing very well with the Team/Bike so leaving now would be a risk, plus he barely speaks english so going to a foreign team would be very hard ( yes Commencal is Andorran for taxes reasons but Max and most employees and team members are French). It is going to be interesting to see how this unfolds.

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10/24/2019 10:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/24/2019 11:11 AM

Sonofbovril2 wrote:

Maybe making it mandatory isn’t the right way to go, but I think part of the issue is that because the women’s racing isn’t as popular, there is a smaller quota and fewer riders overall, in a male dominated sport, it makes it especially hard for women coming up to get support as the return on investment for sponsors and teams is just not there. So yeah I guess it is a bit of a catch 22 but if we want the women’s side of the sport to grow, something has to be done. I don’t think it would be a bad thing for teams to be required to sponsor or at least support a junior rider as well, it can only help for younger riders to be exposed to a proper support structure from an early age.

There should be zero 'requirement' or quota for a team to sponsor any ratio of genders (or any other factor). The only protocol for sponsorship should be a mutual agreement between each racer and the sponsoring company. The company's perceived value of the rider and the rider's desire to sign a contract with said company should be a mutually voluntary contract and nothing more. This isn't Global Premier Football/Soccer, Processional Golf, or the NBA. There isn't an endless bucket of money for teams to throw around, lucrative TV contracts, or stadiums full of fans. Most teams operate on a shoestring budget with very few exceptions. Even the large factories (Trek, Specialized) look at DH as a loss leader marketing tool rather than a money maker with regards to DH.

In addition, there is a vastly higher number of male riders and fans/viewers buying bikes. True, women rider numbers and fan numbers are slowly growing. However, once they get at least somewhat closer to the male numbers, and the competition gets deeper, women just don't move the needle as much in this particular sport.

Before I get berated into oblivion, I fully recognized all this is a catch 22 for women. To get a more competitive field, they need more competitive riders and that requires more outreach to women. However, to force teams into some type of gender-based affirmative action would only hurt the sport, reduce the total number of teams who can afford it.
I will await my down votes.

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10/24/2019 12:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/24/2019 12:12 PM

Somebody with better memory, which rumors from pb article are new? Because some sure look like they came from this thread..

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10/24/2019 4:27 PM

Karabuka wrote:

Somebody with better memory, which rumors from pb article are new? Because some sure look like they came from this thread..

I don't recall reading about Dailly to Specialized. Or about GT splitting with George and Noga. And I don't think I've heard the Oton rumor either.

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10/24/2019 9:14 PM

Karabuka wrote:

Somebody with better memory, which rumors from pb article are new? Because some sure look like they came from this thread..

They usually do.

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