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10/11/2021 7:35 AM

danposs86 wrote:

With how often the bike will get stripped down by World Cup teams, does it really make sense to make it harder to do? At what ...more

Do you really think someone like a WC mechanic has any say in that? smile

If anything, the WC mechanics shouldn't have a say in it, they usually have a bit more time to do the servicing and, more importantly, are there to do a good job. Ordinary bike shop mechanics need to have a high turnover/low turnaround and good servicability is probably worth a lot more to them.

Based on the bikes that have gone through my hands from different brands, some are basically pure garbage, there are such oversights with some designs it's hard to imagine the designers ever saw a bike from up close. One example of that would be Giant's Maestro (judging from the 2015 gen Reign) where you have to remove the crankset and chainguide plus the lower link pivot bolt to remove the shock from the frame. 6 bolts and lots of fiddling for what should be a two bolt job. Then there are pivot bolts behind chainrings, etc.

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10/11/2021 8:48 AM

danposs86 wrote:

With how often the bike will get stripped down by World Cup teams, does it really make sense to make it harder to do? At what ...more

Twinloc is living proof that the designers don't give a fuck what mechanics think.

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10/11/2021 9:16 AM

Along those lines, all the custom parts on bikes too - weird standards of headsets, custom, one-off shocks, etc.

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10/11/2021 10:44 AM

Maestro hasn't been like that for a good while now (at least 5 years). Just a 19mm spanner (iirc) and an 8mm hex to remove the lower shock bolt.

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10/11/2021 11:15 AM

Considering I'm talking about the 2015 Reign that wasn't updated until 2018 and considering the bolt was removed from the driveside and did not pass the chainring... no, it hasn't been at least 5 years. Looking at it now, the 2018 model had the bolt flipped left-to-right, so it could be removed with a wrench on the driveside, so at least they changed that.

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10/11/2021 11:40 AM

So, just 5 years then.
The 17 Trance's were on the current bolt setup and they were first available in 2016.

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10/11/2021 12:49 PM

Primoz wrote:

Um... Erwan... Airsprings have a lower unsprung weight than coil springs do...

I know this sounds facetious (I do see the ...more

Considering the buttercups as basic Silentblocs changes a little bit my view on them but:
- a coil spring isn't 100% unsprung mass, somewhere between 50 to 100% in a fork application with no definite answer to this question. But yes it is more even with Ti coil vs Air and silentblocs.
- I would take unsprung mass if it means reduced dynamic seals (not even counting the spring curve).
- less dynamic seals and lowered unsprung mass means better ability to filter chatter so while it may not replace 100% the effect of silentblocs it would be interesting to see by how much.

Current bike is 100% air, new one will have a Ti coil shock and maybe home made converted Ti coil (of an old Marz for exemple) fork if I find the time and money to do so. Either way I will be happy to ride my bike but not drinking the sales pitch and keeping some critical thinking when they come up with shit is good practice I believe.

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10/11/2021 12:59 PM

I'm all for critical thinking. But moaning about additional 5 grams (if at all, like I mentioned) as unsprung mass is along the lines of 'choosing a buzzword and being a dick about it' (don't take it too literally, I just reworded the wheelsize saying). It's not really worth it when there is a lot more variation everywhere else. And as you noticed, I didn't say it's the be all, end all solution, I really am interested if it has any practical advantages. My point was merely that weight is definitely not a disadvantage in this very specific case.

Regarding unsprung mass, a coil is literally 50 % unsprung mass. The lower single coil (a 360° section of it) is 100 % unsprung mass and the top is 0 % unsprung mass. And it's basically a smooth transition along the length of the coil - the further up the coil you go, the less it travels and the slower it does it compared to the bottom oft he fork. Therefore, when you integrate everything, you should come to a 50 % ratio when looking at the spring as a single element.
Granted, I ignored buckling, any oscillations and the like, but it's close enough.

As for coils... I've seen how smoothly a shock starts moving. It's tempting. But the adjustment of an air shock (or fork) is just too convenient to me. Spring too soft? Add some air. Too stiff? Take some away. No need to buy multiples of springs to fine tune it. When it comes to shocks, Sprindex is a good solution. But still. Also, frame manufacturers (and sellers too!) could probably do a much better job here, there are very few frames where it's specified which spring you should choose based on your weight. Even the frame size fit is lacking in some regards...

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10/11/2021 7:26 PM

The problem with a coil fork is its too linear. Used to love my 888 and 55 wc ti but they did bottom out lots. 888 would build air in the fork and control that until it got too much air. Then id screw off the top caps and burp them and start from scratch again. Progressive coil with air bleeders on the lowers would be sweet. The italian marz coil fork were butter. It would take a 8ft kitchen wall for those forks to get hung up something

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10/11/2021 7:35 PM

danposs86 wrote:

With how often the bike will get stripped down by World Cup teams, does it really make sense to make it harder to do? At what ...more

lickmycrinkle wrote:

Twinloc is living proof that the designers don't give a fuck what mechanics think.

Twinloc is useful and not difficult to deal with?

"What a mechanic finds easiest to deal with" and "what makes a good bike" don't necessarily intersect.

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10/11/2021 9:11 PM

danposs86 wrote:

With how often the bike will get stripped down by World Cup teams, does it really make sense to make it harder to do? At what ...more

lickmycrinkle wrote:

Twinloc is living proof that the designers don't give a fuck what mechanics think.

boozed wrote:

Twinloc is useful and not difficult to deal with?

"What a mechanic finds easiest to deal with" and "what makes a good bike" ...more

If the bike is 5% better but 15-20% more to deal with and issues, is it a better bike? I can tell you the new spark and ebike are going to cost $$$ in repairs for the extra leg work to deal with the suspension and tuning the twinloc on the spark is going to take way longer to tune. I've rarely run into a situation other than fireroad where I even want more than a firm up on my fork, twinloc is a new rider sales feature at best and something expensive to replace if you hate it at worst. It also forces the use of inline shocks on Enduro bikes and a mess at the bars. What a mechanic finds easier to deal with usually means you have your bike back cheaper and faster.

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10/11/2021 9:38 PM

grinch wrote:

The problem with a coil fork is its too linear. Used to love my 888 and 55 wc ti but they did bottom out lots. 888 would build ...more

Would a hydraulic bottom out control system in the damper help here? Or would you prefer a more gradual ramp up nevertheless?

Maybe have another short spring inside the main one for the last part of the travel or what Push does with ACS3?

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10/11/2021 10:17 PM

grinch wrote:

The problem with a coil fork is its too linear. Used to love my 888 and 55 wc ti but they did bottom out lots. 888 would build ...more

Primoz wrote:

Would a hydraulic bottom out control system in the damper help here? Or would you prefer a more gradual ramp up nevertheless?
...more

Im not sure what push and vorsprung are doing with their springs. Thats pretty cool that push are doing that and theyre adding the hhdraulic bottom out on their shocks too. Having both sounds like a good idea. Progressive ramp and no harsh ending sounds ideal. You have me curious on the push fork spring now

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10/11/2021 10:37 PM

grinch wrote:

Im not sure what push and vorsprung are doing with their springs. Thats pretty cool that push are doing that and theyre adding ...more

Push is using an air spring for ramp up, Vorsprung is using (tunable) hydraulic bottom out prevention.

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10/11/2021 11:31 PM

Primoz wrote:

Would a hydraulic bottom out control system in the damper help here? Or would you prefer a more gradual ramp up nevertheless?
...more

grinch wrote:

Im not sure what push and vorsprung are doing with their springs. Thats pretty cool that push are doing that and theyre adding ...more

baronKanon wrote:

Push is using an air spring for ramp up, Vorsprung is using (tunable) hydraulic bottom out prevention.

Thats for rear shocks?

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10/11/2021 11:37 PM

Forks, at least for push. They have a thin air piston going through the middle of the spring. And there's an air valve at the top of the fork, as with standard springs.

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10/12/2021 12:38 AM

It looks like Flight Attendant isn't the only SRAM wireless suspension magic launching. Airwiz, which looks like an integrated ShockWiz has passed through Bluetooth certification

https://editmtb.com/what-is-sram-airwiz/

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10/12/2021 12:51 AM

lickmycrinkle wrote:

Twinloc is living proof that the designers don't give a fuck what mechanics think.

boozed wrote:

Twinloc is useful and not difficult to deal with?

"What a mechanic finds easiest to deal with" and "what makes a good bike" ...more

metadave wrote:

If the bike is 5% better but 15-20% more to deal with and issues, is it a better bike? I can tell you the new spark and ebike ...more

I own a bike with twinloc (obviously) and I don't understand the comment regarding "tuning". Setting the tension on the cables is trivial and tuning is done wide open. If anything it's simple to tune because there's so little external adjustment.

There are fair criticisms of the system in practice but this is about whether what's best for mechanics is also best for riders, and if two extra cables pisses off your mechanic, well...

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10/12/2021 2:35 AM

boozed wrote:

Twinloc is useful and not difficult to deal with?

"What a mechanic finds easiest to deal with" and "what makes a good bike" ...more

metadave wrote:

If the bike is 5% better but 15-20% more to deal with and issues, is it a better bike? I can tell you the new spark and ebike ...more

boozed wrote:

I own a bike with twinloc (obviously) and I don't understand the comment regarding "tuning". Setting the tension on the cables ...more

It's not that your mechanic has to deal with 2 extra cables, since he's probably working in a Scott shop, he has to deal with 2000 extra cables a year.

If it was limited to XC race rigs I could get behind it, but it has no place on a Ransom for example.

Ever worked on a Ransom eride? Kill me now.

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10/12/2021 1:40 PM

lickmycrinkle wrote:

It's not that your mechanic has to deal with 2 extra cables, since he's probably working in a Scott shop, he has to deal with ...more

Thank god they got rid of it for the new ransom eride, that's a really sweet bike actually. Under-rated eeb.

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10/12/2021 2:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/12/2021 2:14 PM

Now that stumpy evo alu is released what is the point of keeping status models in the line

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10/12/2021 3:46 PM

danposs86 wrote:

With how often the bike will get stripped down by World Cup teams, does it really make sense to make it harder to do? At what ...more

Primoz wrote:

Do you really think someone like a WC mechanic has any say in that? smile

If anything, the WC mechanics shouldn't have a say in ...more

Only if it was built with the bolt in backwards. Put the nut on the drive side and slide axel from non drive side and you could swap shock quite easily without removing anything.

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10/12/2021 6:59 PM

Primoz wrote:

Forks, at least for push. They have a thin air piston going through the middle of the spring. And there's an air valve at the ...more

Thanks. Sounds like a nice product

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10/12/2021 11:19 PM

New Torque?
@ rampage 1st hits
Photo

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10/12/2021 11:38 PM

qblambda wrote:

New Torque?
@ rampage 1st hits
Photo

Was leaked months ago already. My guess is a launch will come this week.

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10/13/2021 4:44 AM

mfoga wrote:

Only if it was built with the bolt in backwards. Put the nut on the drive side and slide axel from non drive side and you ...more

giant installed the bolt that way intentionally for many years. the reason being was in case the nut loosened and fell off and the bolt started backing out it wouldn't be able to fall out of the frame due to the chain ring.

source : giant rep at the shop I helped out at.

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10/13/2021 8:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/13/2021 8:36 AM

some lyrik in the wild. new lowers already but no flight attendand in sight. alltough already had those new compression knobs as seen on some blackbox boxxers.

Photo

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10/13/2021 8:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/13/2021 9:08 AM

Prolly just the 2022/"2023" stuff (2020 products got released in march of 2019 and were available in april 2019, therefore the quotation marks).

The question is, is the shock new as well? Are there any other new products on the bike (drivetrain?)?

I'd be surprised if we don't see some updates on the drivetrain side fairly soon. XX1 came out in 2013 and XX1 Eagle came out in 2016. 2019 brought the AXS stuff and somewhere along the same time we also saw the 10-52 cassette - a bandaid solution for Shimano offering 1 more tooth on the big cog.

13 gears is the obvious way to go (one better), but at least a rethink of the whole cassette to reduce the nasty jump between the 42 and 52 tooth cogs would be nice to see. And a more functioning derailleur clutch (one that doesn't just die) would also be useful. Road groups apparently already use the hydraulic version, something something not strong enough for MTB use, but that isn't something a few years of development couldn't solve?

Just rambling here, but I've been thinking about shorter pitch chains for a while (10 mm link length instead of the standard half inch, for example). Shimano has already made a Dura Ace groupset with a 10 mm chain in the 80s and it obviously didn't catch on. Why shorter chain links? For the same diameter (more or less same cassette size) you get more teeth on the chainrings. Which means less chain articulation when wrapping around the ring, giving lower drivetrain losses and less of a chance for the polygon effect to show up. Sram's road groups with 10t cassettes enabled the use of smaller front rings (less weight, obvs), but are apparently really disliked by the World Tour pros. Supposedly because of efficiency...

The reason for my ramblings? We've got 29ers on MTBs. The bigger the rear wheel, the smaller the front ring has to be to keep the same overall gear ratio or roll out distance. 30T rings are not uncommon on 29ers (I'd sooner go for a 28T ring than I would for a 32T on a 10-50T cassette). Adding range requires the big cassette ring to get bigger, as you can't really go smaller than 10T realistically. With a shorter chain pitch you'd get some more freedom when it comes to gear ratios. Granted, the smaller the sprocket diameter (regardless of the number of teeth), the higher the forces in the chain, so it's a balancing act. But with how integrated the manufacturers want the drivetrains to be lately, is a shorter pitched chain just a matter of time?

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10/13/2021 2:51 PM

Hey everyone. I have a pretty important article for you folks to check out. Trek have patented a bike box, but it's not a normal box. They say this box is "to be directly delivered to end users". So, it's a direct-to-consumer box. The technical side of the box isn't the focus. Rather, it's the market implications. Trek left a comment explaining it's for China, so I also wrote an edit at the top to address that comment. Thanks for reading everyone. And please don't kill me, I'm just the messenger!

https://wheelbased.com/2021/10/11/bicycle-packaging-system-by-trek/

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10/13/2021 3:39 PM

WheelBased wrote:

Hey everyone. I have a pretty important article for you folks to check out. Trek have patented a bike box, but it's not a ...more

as a package engineer, i'm probably the only one here interested in the technical side of the it.

one thing that I find interesting is that they filed a US patent for a box they don't plan on using here. thinking about it some more, on the surface that may seem odd, but it's probably more to keep their IP from being poached here, so others don't see the design in use in other markets then implement it in the US market.

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