Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable.
In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a rear dynamo hub and a capacitor in the derailleur for the first shifts when you start pedaling. To set up the starting gear, auto-shifting pattern, etc. you'll have to resort to the same phone app you'll use to adjust the shifting performance of the XTR/XT/Deore gruppos.
Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable. In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a...
Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable.
In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a rear dynamo hub and a capacitor in the derailleur for the first shifts when you start pedaling. To set up the starting gear, auto-shifting pattern, etc. you'll have to resort to the same phone app you'll use to adjust the shifting performance of the XTR/XT/Deore gruppos.
This makes so much sense. I couldn't figure out who the market was for XT autoshift, but it seems like the big brains at Shimano were using Mick Hannah to race and develop autoshift on the EDR e-bike so they could roll it out later on commuter e-bikes. Checks out. Kinda like the Canyon KISS system- doesn't make sense for actual MTB users, makes a ton of sense for commuter e-bikes and for high-income Germans using expensive e-MTB's as commuter bikes.
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable. In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a...
Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable.
In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a rear dynamo hub and a capacitor in the derailleur for the first shifts when you start pedaling. To set up the starting gear, auto-shifting pattern, etc. you'll have to resort to the same phone app you'll use to adjust the shifting performance of the XTR/XT/Deore gruppos.
This makes so much sense. I couldn't figure out who the market was for XT autoshift, but it seems like the big brains at Shimano were...
This makes so much sense. I couldn't figure out who the market was for XT autoshift, but it seems like the big brains at Shimano were using Mick Hannah to race and develop autoshift on the EDR e-bike so they could roll it out later on commuter e-bikes. Checks out. Kinda like the Canyon KISS system- doesn't make sense for actual MTB users, makes a ton of sense for commuter e-bikes and for high-income Germans using expensive e-MTB's as commuter bikes.
Also answers the question of how they were going to get around SRAMs patent for having the battery on the derailleur...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
Looks great! There's definitely a market for a bike like that, even if it is niche, although it will be a hard task to take business off of companies like Commencal and YT. Will be interesting to see if its branded as a Sensus or something else entirely (Zink Bikes perhaps)?
You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide...
You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide. 100% I'd pull transmission too, no doubt in my mind.
Link glide/Cues is down right amazing and the cost of the groups is less than a transmission derailleur. We were having issues with someone blasting through...
Link glide/Cues is down right amazing and the cost of the groups is less than a transmission derailleur. We were having issues with someone blasting through cassettes and one bike brand's high torque output skipping under super heavy loads. Linkglide groups solved those and many other issues this year. My Rootdown is getting linkglide this winter for Christmas so I never have to worry about it again.
Ihave been on linkglide xt 11sp since last season and stil shifts like new when properly cleaned and waxed/squirt(ed). .. same chain same everything.. just a diesel mercedes benz
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
Looks great! There's definitely a market for a bike like that, even if it is niche, although it will be a hard task to take business...
Looks great! There's definitely a market for a bike like that, even if it is niche, although it will be a hard task to take business off of companies like Commencal and YT. Will be interesting to see if its branded as a Sensus or something else entirely (Zink Bikes perhaps)?
I'm sure he knows it's a bit niche. It's likely more on the Neko Mulally kind of thing where he wants to build a company around the bikes he wants to ride and develop, and has other sources of income to let it be a pet project for a while.
I'd be keen to see what he could do on the trail bike and slopestyle category too if he has full creative control. Vacay bikes I think was the old name, who knows if he'll bring it back. Zinc bikes also sounds good.
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
looking closer at the frame, welds, & hardware has me wondering if that was welded by FTW. Could Zink be doing something similar to what Neko is doing with Frameworks?
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same...
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back on things we feel strongly about. Seems to have worked in getting Propain to ditch cable tourism. Maybe there's still time for SC to re-tool their moulds and ditch cable suicide.
I'm sure he knows it's a bit niche. It's likely more on the Neko Mulally kind of thing where he wants to build a company around...
I'm sure he knows it's a bit niche. It's likely more on the Neko Mulally kind of thing where he wants to build a company around the bikes he wants to ride and develop, and has other sources of income to let it be a pet project for a while.
I'd be keen to see what he could do on the trail bike and slopestyle category too if he has full creative control. Vacay bikes I think was the old name, who knows if he'll bring it back. Zinc bikes also sounds good.
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO.
That's just how it goes into almost any industry. In the beginning it feels forced upon you, afterwards you get used to it, and after a while it feels like a pre-historic relic if you still spot one in the wild. Manual car crank windows worked fine for decades, and were a lot cheaper to replace than the motorized ones. However, if you buy a new car, you don't get the option anymore, and not a lot will want to go back. also all innovation comes in steps. You are either a early adopter and buy a minidisc player that got replaced with a ipod or mp3 player before it all goes from your phone, or you stuck with your CD's and went straight to spotify.
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same...
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back...
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back on things we feel strongly about. Seems to have worked in getting Propain to ditch cable tourism. Maybe there's still time for SC to re-tool their moulds and ditch cable suicide.
I'm with you in hopefulness, but I think the critical difference between Propain and SC is the former is still a relatively small company, latter is owned by PON Holdings and being managed as a profitable investment rather than a core mtb brand. I'm imagining an intern at SC looking at this forum, agreeing with everything, escalating the feedback to their manager, and that feedback being thrown into a black hole
Ironically my e-mtb shit itself yesterday riding from the pub, 30kg bike on DH tyres SUCKS riding uphill lol. Serves me right for not taking the dedicated pub bike hardtail, right tool for the job as they say
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
That's just how it goes into almost any industry. In the beginning it feels forced upon you, afterwards you get used to it, and after a...
That's just how it goes into almost any industry. In the beginning it feels forced upon you, afterwards you get used to it, and after a while it feels like a pre-historic relic if you still spot one in the wild. Manual car crank windows worked fine for decades, and were a lot cheaper to replace than the motorized ones. However, if you buy a new car, you don't get the option anymore, and not a lot will want to go back. also all innovation comes in steps. You are either a early adopter and buy a minidisc player that got replaced with a ipod or mp3 player before it all goes from your phone, or you stuck with your CD's and went straight to spotify.
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going to be a while before the average person considers (non-e) bikes with electronics and batteries to be more "normal" than their purely mechanical counterparts. Until then, there's going to be major pushback from cyclists who think it's ridiculous that they can't buy the bike they want without being forced to spend extra on electronic shifting.
Then of course there's e-bikes, but if they continue rising in popularity among regular people (which should incentivize development of cheap and effective drive units), I think most would agree there should still be an option to save $$$ by not being forced to run a fancy and unnecessary electronic shifter. I won't ignore the fact that there may well be cheap and effective e-derailleurs powered by e-bike batteries in the near future, but that doesn't help the issue for regular bikes.
That’s just the thing though. These bigger companies don’t want you to have a choice. I figured most of us would’ve accepted that by now.
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on the high end carbon trail bikes) are the kind of people who don’t want cables on their high end trail bikes. You can choose from so many amazing brands that tick all of your boxes. But I don’t think that’s what any of this has been about: this has been an exercise in shitting on the hot new thing, shitting on big bad business, shitting on “oh no this is different and scary.”
Big brands know you have a choice. They know who picks their bikes and who doesn’t. And they don’t care if you don’t want their bikes, they’ll sell them hand over fist anyways.
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
Wow, he’s put a big fork on that Capra (thats's not a bad thing).... Lewis brakes too
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride...
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
Going back a few pages, it is this bike Simon Maurer is currently riding. It's a brand called Frace bike. So no new dh bike from germany, just a new proto/iteration from that brand.
Electric windows and electric drivetrains aren't really comparable. Electric drivetrains gain you cost, complexity and weight for a hardly present benefit (automatic shifting on ebikes is possible). Electric windows enable you to open or close any of the windows of a car with a single press of a button, giving you the ability to focus on the driving and/or opening any/all windows from the driver's seat. Or opening all the windows walking to the car by holding the unlock button of the fob, ventilating the car before you even open any of the doors.
Same goes for electrically adjusted mirrors as opposed to manually adjusted where you can't adjust them while driving. Sure it adds weight, complexity and cost, but also gives you measurable benefits (ability to focus on the driving).
There are of course 'purists' that bemoan electric windows and would prefer windup windows. It would make sense on a lightweight, sportscar driven on weekends, but a daily driver car is a tool, not a pleasure object. Tools should be useful, not a hindrance.
EDIT: for what it's worth, while I am in the bemoaning wireless/electronic shifting camp when it comes to classical drivetrains, I would be ALL OVER the electronic variant of shifting with the Pinion gearbox over the Gripshift option. Because there are benefits.
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same...
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back...
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back on things we feel strongly about. Seems to have worked in getting Propain to ditch cable tourism. Maybe there's still time for SC to re-tool their moulds and ditch cable suicide.
Why dont you guys make a forum dedicated to new trends and standards you dont like, a one stop shop for companies to get feedback and for you guys to vent?
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same...
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back...
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back on things we feel strongly about. Seems to have worked in getting Propain to ditch cable tourism. Maybe there's still time for SC to re-tool their moulds and ditch cable suicide.
Why dont you guys make a forum dedicated to new trends and standards you dont like, a one stop shop for companies to get feedback and...
Why dont you guys make a forum dedicated to new trends and standards you dont like, a one stop shop for companies to get feedback and for you guys to vent?
They know they will be ignored there. Actually, a monkey-related mtb forum I was on had a “this is what’s wrong with the industry” thread as well as a “this is what’s right with the industry” thread. Both were very active with the same folks
I actually like Sram transmission for where I ride. Northeast chunk hits your derailleur at weird times, the direct mount transmission has saved me more than once. I banged the lower cage so bad over many rocks that I replaced it about a year in - now it's perfect again. Before the transmission stuff I was stocking 5+ hangers at a time. I did wish they had a cable actuated version for transmission - although charging batteries hasn't been too much of a hassle just yet. Shifting under power also feels pretty good compared to the old GX and Shimano XTs. Don't like wireless droppers. Absolutely no gain over the cable actuated ones in each and every way. Wishing for some machinist/fabricator to somehow frankenstein a cable version of transmission - happy to pay for that.
Why is there so much backlash against frame manufactures like Santa Cruz and Specialized going electronic drivetrain only but no one is questioning what is driving that decision? With GX level AXS and transmission, and the new OEM level transmission SRAM has all but said we aren't doing mechanical shifting anymore. I have no idea what Shimano's plans are with the new Di2 replacement but my guess is that it's going to cover a wide range of performance levels to compete with SRAM, possibly even cannibalizing all their mechanical shifting options. That leaves you with CUES, which by all accounts is great but I'm not sure fills the wants of the general MTB buying public.
My point is all the hate here is directed at the frame manufactures but why would they put holes in frames if they know there soon wont be any cables to put through those holes.
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on...
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on the high end carbon trail bikes) are the kind of people who don’t want cables on their high end trail bikes. You can choose from so many amazing brands that tick all of your boxes. But I don’t think that’s what any of this has been about: this has been an exercise in shitting on the hot new thing, shitting on big bad business, shitting on “oh no this is different and scary.”
Big brands know you have a choice. They know who picks their bikes and who doesn’t. And they don’t care if you don’t want their bikes, they’ll sell them hand over fist anyways.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
Something I find interesting about this whole thread derailment w.r.t. opinions on wireless drivetrains:
Since I started paying attention to mtb in the early 2010s, there has always been a reactionary design (or lack of design?) movement in smaller companies while the big ones drove a consumer market. When carbon-fibre frames became a more common sight in gravity-oriented riding, small companies would advertise their aluminium or steel construction. When the big corps pushed for 29-inch wheels, small companies would advertise their 27.5-inch wheeled bikes (or, for some time, 26-inch!).
But throughout this pattern (which is admittedly weak), it has always been coming from frame manufacturers. If something happens like SRAM and Shimano pruning their cable-driven options, will we start to see companies like TRP and Microshift advertise their still-cable-driven options? Will we see companies trying to appeal to the anti-wireless crowd with wide-range 9-speed drivetrains? Will we see gearboxes rise in popularity?
Shifters will use 2032 cells, derailleur's battery will be internal, but replaceable.
In other news, there will be a shifterless commuter/city bike group (called ESSA), with a rear dynamo hub and a capacitor in the derailleur for the first shifts when you start pedaling. To set up the starting gear, auto-shifting pattern, etc. you'll have to resort to the same phone app you'll use to adjust the shifting performance of the XTR/XT/Deore gruppos.
This makes so much sense. I couldn't figure out who the market was for XT autoshift, but it seems like the big brains at Shimano were using Mick Hannah to race and develop autoshift on the EDR e-bike so they could roll it out later on commuter e-bikes. Checks out. Kinda like the Canyon KISS system- doesn't make sense for actual MTB users, makes a ton of sense for commuter e-bikes and for high-income Germans using expensive e-MTB's as commuter bikes.
You know what's really super awesome? When the SC bikes do finally get released like this, we'll get ANOTHER 5 pages of people rehashing the same points ad nauseum.
Also answers the question of how they were going to get around SRAMs patent for having the battery on the derailleur...
Apparently September/October timeframe per Specialized Rider Care Customer Service.
While we were bickering about transmission and cable routing, other site dropped photos of Zinc's new bike. Looks nice and simple, and is purely a freeride bike where so many other brands are building "race bikes you can freeride on".
Looks great! There's definitely a market for a bike like that, even if it is niche, although it will be a hard task to take business off of companies like Commencal and YT. Will be interesting to see if its branded as a Sensus or something else entirely (Zink Bikes perhaps)?
Ihave been on linkglide xt 11sp since last season and stil shifts like new when properly cleaned and waxed/squirt(ed). .. same chain same everything.. just a diesel mercedes benz
I'm sure he knows it's a bit niche. It's likely more on the Neko Mulally kind of thing where he wants to build a company around the bikes he wants to ride and develop, and has other sources of income to let it be a pet project for a while.
I'd be keen to see what he could do on the trail bike and slopestyle category too if he has full creative control. Vacay bikes I think was the old name, who knows if he'll bring it back. Zinc bikes also sounds good.
looking closer at the frame, welds, & hardware has me wondering if that was welded by FTW. Could Zink be doing something similar to what Neko is doing with Frameworks?
If the response on the other site from Propain is any indication that some companies do read these forums, I see no reason to hold back on things we feel strongly about. Seems to have worked in getting Propain to ditch cable tourism. Maybe there's still time for SC to re-tool their moulds and ditch cable suicide.
That's just how it goes into almost any industry. In the beginning it feels forced upon you, afterwards you get used to it, and after a while it feels like a pre-historic relic if you still spot one in the wild. Manual car crank windows worked fine for decades, and were a lot cheaper to replace than the motorized ones. However, if you buy a new car, you don't get the option anymore, and not a lot will want to go back. also all innovation comes in steps. You are either a early adopter and buy a minidisc player that got replaced with a ipod or mp3 player before it all goes from your phone, or you stuck with your CD's and went straight to spotify.
I'm with you in hopefulness, but I think the critical difference between Propain and SC is the former is still a relatively small company, latter is owned by PON Holdings and being managed as a profitable investment rather than a core mtb brand. I'm imagining an intern at SC looking at this forum, agreeing with everything, escalating the feedback to their manager, and that feedback being thrown into a black hole
Ironically my e-mtb shit itself yesterday riding from the pub, 30kg bike on DH tyres SUCKS riding uphill lol. Serves me right for not taking the dedicated pub bike hardtail, right tool for the job as they say
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going to be a while before the average person considers (non-e) bikes with electronics and batteries to be more "normal" than their purely mechanical counterparts. Until then, there's going to be major pushback from cyclists who think it's ridiculous that they can't buy the bike they want without being forced to spend extra on electronic shifting.
Then of course there's e-bikes, but if they continue rising in popularity among regular people (which should incentivize development of cheap and effective drive units), I think most would agree there should still be an option to save $$$ by not being forced to run a fancy and unnecessary electronic shifter. I won't ignore the fact that there may well be cheap and effective e-derailleurs powered by e-bike batteries in the near future, but that doesn't help the issue for regular bikes.
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on the high end carbon trail bikes) are the kind of people who don’t want cables on their high end trail bikes. You can choose from so many amazing brands that tick all of your boxes. But I don’t think that’s what any of this has been about: this has been an exercise in shitting on the hot new thing, shitting on big bad business, shitting on “oh no this is different and scary.”
Big brands know you have a choice. They know who picks their bikes and who doesn’t. And they don’t care if you don’t want their bikes, they’ll sell them hand over fist anyways.
Wow, he’s put a big fork on that Capra (thats's not a bad thing).... Lewis brakes too
That is not a Capra it's his own bike he made.
You didn't spot the facetious tone huh
Going back a few pages, it is this bike Simon Maurer is currently riding. It's a brand called Frace bike. So no new dh bike from germany, just a new proto/iteration from that brand.
Didn't know he is such a handy fabricator 🤔😀
Electric windows and electric drivetrains aren't really comparable. Electric drivetrains gain you cost, complexity and weight for a hardly present benefit (automatic shifting on ebikes is possible). Electric windows enable you to open or close any of the windows of a car with a single press of a button, giving you the ability to focus on the driving and/or opening any/all windows from the driver's seat. Or opening all the windows walking to the car by holding the unlock button of the fob, ventilating the car before you even open any of the doors.
Same goes for electrically adjusted mirrors as opposed to manually adjusted where you can't adjust them while driving. Sure it adds weight, complexity and cost, but also gives you measurable benefits (ability to focus on the driving).
There are of course 'purists' that bemoan electric windows and would prefer windup windows. It would make sense on a lightweight, sportscar driven on weekends, but a daily driver car is a tool, not a pleasure object. Tools should be useful, not a hindrance.
EDIT: for what it's worth, while I am in the bemoaning wireless/electronic shifting camp when it comes to classical drivetrains, I would be ALL OVER the electronic variant of shifting with the Pinion gearbox over the Gripshift option. Because there are benefits.
Why dont you guys make a forum dedicated to new trends and standards you dont like, a one stop shop for companies to get feedback and for you guys to vent?
I assume people were saying the same things when MTBs first started coming without provision for front derailleurs.
SC Tallboy released April 2016 for a 2017 model year is lacking in one.
I think SC have always been Sram-biased; contrast to Pivot who stuck with shimano specced bikes for quite a while.
They know they will be ignored there. Actually, a monkey-related mtb forum I was on had a “this is what’s wrong with the industry” thread as well as a “this is what’s right with the industry” thread. Both were very active with the same folks
I actually like Sram transmission for where I ride. Northeast chunk hits your derailleur at weird times, the direct mount transmission has saved me more than once. I banged the lower cage so bad over many rocks that I replaced it about a year in - now it's perfect again. Before the transmission stuff I was stocking 5+ hangers at a time. I did wish they had a cable actuated version for transmission - although charging batteries hasn't been too much of a hassle just yet. Shifting under power also feels pretty good compared to the old GX and Shimano XTs. Don't like wireless droppers. Absolutely no gain over the cable actuated ones in each and every way. Wishing for some machinist/fabricator to somehow frankenstein a cable version of transmission - happy to pay for that.
Why is there so much backlash against frame manufactures like Santa Cruz and Specialized going electronic drivetrain only but no one is questioning what is driving that decision? With GX level AXS and transmission, and the new OEM level transmission SRAM has all but said we aren't doing mechanical shifting anymore. I have no idea what Shimano's plans are with the new Di2 replacement but my guess is that it's going to cover a wide range of performance levels to compete with SRAM, possibly even cannibalizing all their mechanical shifting options. That leaves you with CUES, which by all accounts is great but I'm not sure fills the wants of the general MTB buying public.
My point is all the hate here is directed at the frame manufactures but why would they put holes in frames if they know there soon wont be any cables to put through those holes.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
Something I find interesting about this whole thread derailment w.r.t. opinions on wireless drivetrains:
Since I started paying attention to mtb in the early 2010s, there has always been a reactionary design (or lack of design?) movement in smaller companies while the big ones drove a consumer market. When carbon-fibre frames became a more common sight in gravity-oriented riding, small companies would advertise their aluminium or steel construction. When the big corps pushed for 29-inch wheels, small companies would advertise their 27.5-inch wheeled bikes (or, for some time, 26-inch!).
But throughout this pattern (which is admittedly weak), it has always been coming from frame manufacturers. If something happens like SRAM and Shimano pruning their cable-driven options, will we start to see companies like TRP and Microshift advertise their still-cable-driven options? Will we see companies trying to appeal to the anti-wireless crowd with wide-range 9-speed drivetrains? Will we see gearboxes rise in popularity?
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