MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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TimBud
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GB
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7/9/2024 1:17pm
gbcoke wrote:

It's an error from every aspect Smile

Near 100% failing rate .

That's every ebike motor in the UK... worse in the summer when conditions get really wet.

Brose have sniped some hardware updates from Performance Line Bearings (ebike motor centre) in the UK who work wonders with servicing motors. They're the official Brose service centre in the UK and when they showed Brose what upgrades they do on a service, Brose took the motor and said thank you very much and implemented all of the changes themselves.

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noodlenosteeze
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7/9/2024 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 1:57pm
Last I heard the release of the range extender got pushed to spring 2025. We'll see if it gets pushed again.   Seriously though, marking an...

Last I heard the release of the range extender got pushed to spring 2025. We'll see if it gets pushed again.

 

Seriously though, marking an E-bike above 45 lbs as a lightweight is a crazy amount of kool-aid from marketing. Keep it around 40 lbs or lower. There are full power, long travel options out there only 3-5 lbs heavier. 

iceman2058 wrote:
It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they...

It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they built it to be burly enough for heavy-duty riding, and they went with a mid-power system to keep the weight down, that's all. That said, it will be interesting to see how quickly the market now arrives at traditional full-power levels from lighter systems than the current full-power ones (the arrival of the DJI motor etc etc)...

Or on the inverse - the Maxon motor on the other site interests me as another lightweight motor option.

Personally, riding a 635wh battery on a Shimano motor, I almost never drop the motor because I am not sitting on boost mode most of the time. Full power eebs do well and don't feel like dead weight in that 48-52 lbs range.

On SL options, 38-42 lbs seems like a good balance point for battery size/power.

Seems like E-bikers want things that are diametrically opposed, with weight being a major factor, especially on full power options; Increase battery size and the bike gets too heavy, make it smaller and range anxiety sets in. Add a battery door and again the bike gets too heavy, but take it away and riders will be upset because they can't hotswap. Build the frame to handle and the extra forces/weight/riding type the bike is meant for and it will get heavy, make your layup thin and you're almost guaranteed to need a warranty the following year.

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NicoZesty96
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portogruaro, VE IT
7/9/2024 2:07pm
jalopyj wrote:

Looks like Decoy SN has the OEM Conti Enduro SuperSofts out front. 

now i'll wait for a trail chasing with super soft rubber and give them a try in the front

1
7/9/2024 2:11pm
jalopyj wrote:

Looks like Decoy SN has the OEM Conti Enduro SuperSofts out front. 

now i'll wait for a trail chasing with super soft rubber and give them a try in the front

Both of my trail casing has wobble, I would give the trail casing a pass and go for enduro

1
maxwrbike
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Pisgah, NC US
7/9/2024 2:39pm
jalopyj wrote:

Looks like Decoy SN has the OEM Conti Enduro SuperSofts out front. 

now i'll wait for a trail chasing with super soft rubber and give them a try in the front

Heard from a very reliable source that they have no plans on bringing super soft into the trail casing or the enduro casing. 

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7/9/2024 2:42pm
maxwrbike wrote:

Heard from a very reliable source that they have no plans on bringing super soft into the trail casing or the enduro casing. 

image-20240709154212-1

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maxwrbike
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7/9/2024 2:56pm
maxwrbike wrote:

Heard from a very reliable source that they have no plans on bringing super soft into the trail casing or the enduro casing. 

tarekfahmy wrote:

image-20240709154212-1

I hope you’re right, the two conti reps that came by our shop last week said they’d never hit the market when I asked about the super soft.  

1
7/9/2024 3:00pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 3:02pm
maxwrbike wrote:
I hope you’re right, the two conti reps that came by our shop last week said they’d never hit the market when I asked about the...

I hope you’re right, the two conti reps that came by our shop last week said they’d never hit the market when I asked about the super soft.  

Iceman also said he has some enduro SS on review. I was also skeptical considering there's been rumor for a while, happy to see it's happening

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NicoZesty96
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7/10/2024 3:34am
Finkill wrote:

Some more info on the new Lapierre, adjustable between low and high pivot! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/lapierre-spicy-cf-2024-test/

was about to post the link, not sure what the typo is saying that the seatpost is 130 or 150 in size M, looks like the seat insertion is quite risicate anyway,

very interesting the fact that you can choose to stay on a full 29 or mullet and choose to go high pivot or not.

also curious if we're just accepting the shit acros makes ( plastic headsets with internal routing ) as it's not mentioned as a Flop anymore,

plus why go down that route ( pun intended ) if you make holes and have guided tubes to route the cables properly anyway.

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Primoz
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7/10/2024 3:52am

Because through headset routing looks better or cleaner or something. I guess, I have my bike routed fully externally...

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29
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7/10/2024 4:00am
Finkill wrote:

Some more info on the new Lapierre, adjustable between low and high pivot! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/lapierre-spicy-cf-2024-test/

was about to post the link, not sure what the typo is saying that the seatpost is 130 or 150 in size M, looks like the...

was about to post the link, not sure what the typo is saying that the seatpost is 130 or 150 in size M, looks like the seat insertion is quite risicate anyway,

very interesting the fact that you can choose to stay on a full 29 or mullet and choose to go high pivot or not.

also curious if we're just accepting the shit acros makes ( plastic headsets with internal routing ) as it's not mentioned as a Flop anymore,

plus why go down that route ( pun intended ) if you make holes and have guided tubes to route the cables properly anyway.

that’s because enduro mtb are some of the least critical reviews out there and industry bootlickers. „It looks so clean, sick!“ 

way too much focused on being hip and bros and pushing the newest shit on people compared to other media outlets. 

20
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NicoZesty96
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portogruaro, VE IT
7/10/2024 4:02am
Finkill wrote:

Some more info on the new Lapierre, adjustable between low and high pivot! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/lapierre-spicy-cf-2024-test/

was about to post the link, not sure what the typo is saying that the seatpost is 130 or 150 in size M, looks like the...

was about to post the link, not sure what the typo is saying that the seatpost is 130 or 150 in size M, looks like the seat insertion is quite risicate anyway,

very interesting the fact that you can choose to stay on a full 29 or mullet and choose to go high pivot or not.

also curious if we're just accepting the shit acros makes ( plastic headsets with internal routing ) as it's not mentioned as a Flop anymore,

plus why go down that route ( pun intended ) if you make holes and have guided tubes to route the cables properly anyway.

29 wrote:
that’s because enduro mtb are some of the least critical reviews out there and industry bootlickers. „It looks so clean, sick!“  way too much focused on...

that’s because enduro mtb are some of the least critical reviews out there and industry bootlickers. „It looks so clean, sick!“ 

way too much focused on being hip and bros and pushing the newest shit on people compared to other media outlets. 

At the same times they’re the one that tried plenty bikes with that shit routing and made a whole article saying how bad it is 😅 they must’ve forgotten or got a big paycheck by Acros

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SteveClimber
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7/10/2024 4:16am

Rich Europeans who don't work on their own bikes will headset cable route, it's somebody else's problem. (I'm assuming not many north Americans but Lapierre bikes).

Kinda funny they got to market with a full carbon version before vampire bikes got even a limited release, their goes their lunch I guess.

Have we reached peak adjustability? Will people really swap from high to low pivot? How much does it change shock leverage? 

Id love some data on how many people actually use flip chips and headset cups at all after their setup. 

 

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boozed
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AU
7/10/2024 4:25am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2024 4:28am
Rich Europeans who don't work on their own bikes will headset cable route, it's somebody else's problem. (I'm assuming not many north Americans but Lapierre bikes)...

Rich Europeans who don't work on their own bikes will headset cable route, it's somebody else's problem. (I'm assuming not many north Americans but Lapierre bikes).

Kinda funny they got to market with a full carbon version before vampire bikes got even a limited release, their goes their lunch I guess.

Have we reached peak adjustability? Will people really swap from high to low pivot? How much does it change shock leverage? 

Id love some data on how many people actually use flip chips and headset cups at all after their setup. 

 

Swapping between the two configurations frequently is probably a hassle, but it does allow Lapierre to satisfy both groups of customers with one parts kit and I see that as a huge advantage.  They've joined the high pivot bandwagon without exclusively committing to it and as a customer, if you don't like it you don't have to sell your frame.

When I go to Thredbo I put my flip chip in low and install a stiffer spring.  If I remember...

4
7/10/2024 8:31am
Finkill wrote:

Some more info on the new Lapierre, adjustable between low and high pivot! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/lapierre-spicy-cf-2024-test/

Doesn't this violate Chris Canfield's patent, since it specifically moves the pivot location along the seat tube? Makes it unlikely to come to the USA 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210380195A1/

1
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
7/10/2024 9:05am
iceman2058 wrote:
It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they...

It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they built it to be burly enough for heavy-duty riding, and they went with a mid-power system to keep the weight down, that's all. That said, it will be interesting to see how quickly the market now arrives at traditional full-power levels from lighter systems than the current full-power ones (the arrival of the DJI motor etc etc)...

Orbea Wild (top build, lots of $$$ as counterpoint) is 46 pounds with full class leading power, full sized motor and 600ish wh battery. Given its...

Orbea Wild (top build, lots of $$$ as counterpoint) is 46 pounds with full class leading power, full sized motor and 600ish wh battery. Given its success in the EEWS (or EEWC, or whatever its called now) I would say its "burly enough for heavy duty riding". 

I had this argument on the other site before getting my account suspended. Budget low power, or "SL" ebikes, seems to be a losing category business wise. They weigh too much for the assist provided. 

I feel like around 42 pounds is the tipping point  (unrelated, thats what my DH bike weighed back in the day) where an ebike no longer handles like a natural bike. If you're not going to be close to that 42 pound target, might as well be 50 pounds with the full sized range and power. I've spent a decent time on SL and full powered ebikes, and that experience combined with customers obsession with stat sheets makes me doubt the viability of a 46 pound "SL" ebike. 

EWS bikes weigh 38#s properly outfitted.

I'm going to assume that a properly set up E-EWS bike weighs over 50#s, and also eats drivetrains/ wheels/ tires, something the average hobbyist might not be cool with.

I do agree that a low end, mid power, is kind of a weird place to be in because it ends up approaching full power weights.

Like diesel mpgs, people LOVE to exaggerate e-bike weights. Could the absolute lightest Wild in a size medium, 36mm fork, 1K gram tires, no pedals/ tools/ inserts & the small battery option weigh 46#s? Sure, but that's not reality.

BTW, my XL Relay in a high-end build, but dual coil suspension, 1350 gram rear tire, DH rear rim, pedals, 210mm dropper, tools with C02 on board weighs an honest 44.4#s and handles beautifully.

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iceman2058
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7/10/2024 9:14am
maxwrbike wrote:

Heard from a very reliable source that they have no plans on bringing super soft into the trail casing or the enduro casing. 

The last thing they told me was SuperSoft on enduro casing (which I've now ridden, at the YT Decoy SN launch), and Soft for the trail casing (which I published a picture of in our Sea Otter coverage, so at least one such tire exists). Sounded like no plans for a SuperSoft with trail casing though, correct.

12
iceman2058
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7/10/2024 9:28am
iceman2058 wrote:
It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they...

It's not being marketed as the lightest bike it could be though, just not as heavy as a full power e-bike. They are specifically saying they built it to be burly enough for heavy-duty riding, and they went with a mid-power system to keep the weight down, that's all. That said, it will be interesting to see how quickly the market now arrives at traditional full-power levels from lighter systems than the current full-power ones (the arrival of the DJI motor etc etc)...

Orbea Wild (top build, lots of $$$ as counterpoint) is 46 pounds with full class leading power, full sized motor and 600ish wh battery. Given its...

Orbea Wild (top build, lots of $$$ as counterpoint) is 46 pounds with full class leading power, full sized motor and 600ish wh battery. Given its success in the EEWS (or EEWC, or whatever its called now) I would say its "burly enough for heavy duty riding". 

I had this argument on the other site before getting my account suspended. Budget low power, or "SL" ebikes, seems to be a losing category business wise. They weigh too much for the assist provided. 

I feel like around 42 pounds is the tipping point  (unrelated, thats what my DH bike weighed back in the day) where an ebike no longer handles like a natural bike. If you're not going to be close to that 42 pound target, might as well be 50 pounds with the full sized range and power. I've spent a decent time on SL and full powered ebikes, and that experience combined with customers obsession with stat sheets makes me doubt the viability of a 46 pound "SL" ebike. 

Suns_PSD wrote:
EWS bikes weigh 38#s properly outfitted. I'm going to assume that a properly set up E-EWS bike weighs over 50#s, and also eats drivetrains/ wheels/ tires...

EWS bikes weigh 38#s properly outfitted.

I'm going to assume that a properly set up E-EWS bike weighs over 50#s, and also eats drivetrains/ wheels/ tires, something the average hobbyist might not be cool with.

I do agree that a low end, mid power, is kind of a weird place to be in because it ends up approaching full power weights.

Like diesel mpgs, people LOVE to exaggerate e-bike weights. Could the absolute lightest Wild in a size medium, 36mm fork, 1K gram tires, no pedals/ tools/ inserts & the small battery option weigh 46#s? Sure, but that's not reality.

BTW, my XL Relay in a high-end build, but dual coil suspension, 1350 gram rear tire, DH rear rim, pedals, 210mm dropper, tools with C02 on board weighs an honest 44.4#s and handles beautifully.

To me, there's a big difference between 45 and 50 lbs in terms of how the bike feels on the trail, and in life in general. The 45 lbs bike I just spent two days on really did have me forgetting I was on an e-bike at times. Even hoisting the thing up onto a lift is "OK" (granted, I'm not a small dude and even though I'm old, the Viking genes are still going strong :-) ). A couple of months ago I spent two days riding a 50 lbs Turbo Levo, and although for general "shredding" that's a very fun and planted ride, I definitely noticed the extra heft. Popping the bike around on smaller features, moving it around in the air, all those little things feel a bit sluggish with that extra battery and motor weight.

As for the builds...yeah, a "real" enduro build will certainly add up to some weight. There's a 350 gram difference between a Fox 36 and a 38, just for starters. If you're gonna actually smash into stuff, you're gonna need real wheels and tires. Of course an "SL" e-bike with 140 mm of travel, a Fox 34 and flimsy trail casings, a 350 wh battery and a 50 nm motor will be significantly lighter, but let's not kid ourselves - it's not an enduro bike even if you can still point it down some rowdy stuff. To me, it's interesting that most of the Super Light e-bikes tend to be actual trail bikes, whereas the full-power ones are the proper enduro bikes. Because the manufacturers are either racing to make the "lightest one" or the one with the most power for climbing. Going forward, maybe we'll start to see bikes divided into 4 quadrants, defined on the one axis by type of riding, and the other by motor size/type.

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iceman2058
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7/10/2024 9:30am
tarekfahmy wrote:

Iceman also said he has some enduro SS on review. I was also skeptical considering there's been rumor for a while, happy to see it's happening

Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up... Unsure (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I really liked it...still hope to get some in for a long term review...)

10
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
7/10/2024 10:10am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up...  (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I...

Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up... Unsure (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I really liked it...still hope to get some in for a long term review...)

Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please.

Thanks.

 

PS. To me, bikes like the Relay, Heckler SL and the Decoy SN make PERFECT sense. I get my super rowdy Enduro rig, but just reduce the suffering and don't have to compromise on tires and other parts in an attempt to reduce rolling resistance so that I can get another run in. That's all I ever wanted.

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JerseyMojo
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7/10/2024 10:29am

Anyone know anything about the new Kona that’s being released tomorrow?

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Onawalk
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7/10/2024 10:34am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up...  (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I...

Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up... Unsure (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I really liked it...still hope to get some in for a long term review...)

Suns_PSD wrote:
Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please. Thanks.  ...

Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please.

Thanks.

 

PS. To me, bikes like the Relay, Heckler SL and the Decoy SN make PERFECT sense. I get my super rowdy Enduro rig, but just reduce the suffering and don't have to compromise on tires and other parts in an attempt to reduce rolling resistance so that I can get another run in. That's all I ever wanted.

This seems like the perfect use case for a direct message

10
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jasbushey
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7/10/2024 10:55am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up...  (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I...

Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up... Unsure (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I really liked it...still hope to get some in for a long term review...)

Suns_PSD wrote:
Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please. Thanks.  ...

Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please.

Thanks.

 

PS. To me, bikes like the Relay, Heckler SL and the Decoy SN make PERFECT sense. I get my super rowdy Enduro rig, but just reduce the suffering and don't have to compromise on tires and other parts in an attempt to reduce rolling resistance so that I can get another run in. That's all I ever wanted.

Onawalk wrote:

This seems like the perfect use case for a direct message

10
1
7/10/2024 10:58am
29 wrote:
that’s because enduro mtb are some of the least critical reviews out there and industry bootlickers. „It looks so clean, sick!“  way too much focused on...

that’s because enduro mtb are some of the least critical reviews out there and industry bootlickers. „It looks so clean, sick!“ 

way too much focused on being hip and bros and pushing the newest shit on people compared to other media outlets. 

Quite often EnduroMTB are the only place that calls out bikes for being rubbish, Pinkbike just goes to bed with all the brands because its purely about bringing in as much $$$$ - look at bike of the year, they were counting their cash before posting the article and thats why it took so long lol.
VMTB is a bit mixed 

I've ridden some awful bikes like the sentinel but only enduro calls out it out as hard to ride - Common to see HTA sets on them now, Steeps it up and extends the reach a little.

2
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owl-x
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7/10/2024 11:08am

Sentinel is awful? Awful? 
 

Awful. 
 

 

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SteveClimber
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7/10/2024 12:00pm
Finkill wrote:

Some more info on the new Lapierre, adjustable between low and high pivot! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/lapierre-spicy-cf-2024-test/

Doesn't this violate Chris Canfield's patent, since it specifically moves the pivot location along the seat tube? Makes it unlikely to come to the USA 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210380195A1/

That's why I brought it up.

 

Potentially it's not infringing because there are only 2 options not 3 like Vampire bikes? I'm certainly no patent lawyer and don't know how specific you have to be in these things.

3
7/10/2024 12:02pm
iceman2058 wrote:
Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up...  (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I...

Well...they keep telling me they're gonna send some, but they have yet to show up... Unsure (but yeah, I've actually ridden the SuperSoft enduro tire now, and I really liked it...still hope to get some in for a long term review...)

Suns_PSD wrote:
Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please. Thanks.  ...

Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please.

Thanks.

 

PS. To me, bikes like the Relay, Heckler SL and the Decoy SN make PERFECT sense. I get my super rowdy Enduro rig, but just reduce the suffering and don't have to compromise on tires and other parts in an attempt to reduce rolling resistance so that I can get another run in. That's all I ever wanted.

With the Heckler SL and Decoy SN get your super rowdy enduro rig, but only for 3 to 4 top to bottom descents before you have to stop and charge. Maybe I'm in the minority (I would think not on this forum lol) but an eeb doesn't increase the mileage I can do, it just shortens the time it takes to do said mileage. 

430wh is simply not large enough for the length of rides I want to do where a motor is assisting me. (never touch boost) The added weight for removable batteries has been grossly over exaggerated by the industry imo. My dad's XL Spectral ON with the 900wh removable battery weighs 51lbs. The Relay, the Trek Rail and even the full fat Decoy are also not pigs by any means.

45lb natural handling bike + spare battery in the truck = 860wh to play with on a real self shuttle day, not just 3 or 4 runs before you limp home in eco.

Wonder many people actually wait around for their bike to charge at the charging station at Kanuga? I was lucky to have 2 full fat eebs with me the only time I've ridden there.

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grinch
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7/10/2024 12:11pm

I thought boost was the only mode!?!? The others are get home mode

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iceman2058
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7/10/2024 12:20pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please. Thanks.  ...

Which 2.5 front Enduro tire would you choose today for dry rocky e-bike (Relay) usage? Include the Krytoptol Super-soft Enduro casing in that please.

Thanks.

 

PS. To me, bikes like the Relay, Heckler SL and the Decoy SN make PERFECT sense. I get my super rowdy Enduro rig, but just reduce the suffering and don't have to compromise on tires and other parts in an attempt to reduce rolling resistance so that I can get another run in. That's all I ever wanted.

Onawalk wrote:

This seems like the perfect use case for a direct message

jasbushey wrote:

Yep, good call, sorry for the derailment, I've posted my answer in the tire nerds thread...

2

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