MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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1/23/2023 5:48am
sethimus wrote:

shouldn’t the switch to mineral oil not be enough newness?

It’s not the whole range going to mineral oil is it? I thought it was just one or two specific non race models?

Talked with a sram guy couple months ago about this. He said there are „performance oriented“ (more adjustments) mineral options coming. But the highest offerings will stay DOT

But the DB8 Caliper is actually the same as the Code Rsc, except the fluid and different design outside.

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Primoz
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1/23/2023 5:52am

Less refined too. 

I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to deal with some proprietary baby oil fluid... 

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metadave
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1/23/2023 8:01am
Primoz wrote:
Less refined too.  I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to...

Less refined too. 

I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to deal with some proprietary baby oil fluid... 

But it's the best, it keeps my skin soft after a day of bleeds..

The DB8's lever feel is excellent but I've yet to have any real world feed back if them being ridden hard on long descents. I'm a Shimano brakes guy but I do enjoy a properly set up pair of codes from time to time. 

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sethimus
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1/23/2023 9:52am
sethimus wrote:

shouldn’t the switch to mineral oil not be enough newness?

It’s not the whole range going to mineral oil is it? I thought it was just one or two specific non race models?

mondraker dealer camp 2 years ago the info was they pulling an apple and move everything over to mineral oil till 2024

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Buttons
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Provo, UT US
1/23/2023 10:53am
sethimus wrote:

shouldn’t the switch to mineral oil not be enough newness?

I haven’t even thought of that. I didn’t really pay attention to see if there was a “DOT 5.1” label. It wouldn’t surprise me too much if that’s a coming change.

Onawalk
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1/24/2023 6:23am
Primoz wrote:
Less refined too.  I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to...

Less refined too. 

I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to deal with some proprietary baby oil fluid... 

metadave wrote:
But it's the best, it keeps my skin soft after a day of bleeds.. The DB8's lever feel is excellent but I've yet to have any...

But it's the best, it keeps my skin soft after a day of bleeds..

The DB8's lever feel is excellent but I've yet to have any real world feed back if them being ridden hard on long descents. I'm a Shimano brakes guy but I do enjoy a properly set up pair of codes from time to time. 

Rode a pair in Costa Rica on a Trek Rail, was surprised by how much they felt exactly like my Code brakes, as far as I was concerned they were indistinguishable from them.

it was my first time on an electric mountain moped as well, had a great ol time.  The entry level suspension on that Rail was really impressive feeling.  Bike was brand new, I was the first to get it dirty.

nskerb
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1/24/2023 7:33am

All things equal, if your DOT or (not walgreens brand) mineral oil is clean and new and well bled, 2 brakes of the same design should perform just about identically. 

 

DOT just holds up almost infinitely better to heat, both long and short term. 

 

I do prefer Shimano brakes. I do with they were DOT though. 

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1/24/2023 7:37am

Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use it for all of my brakes.

And: has any one of you actually boiled your brake fluid?

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1/24/2023 7:47am
Primoz wrote:
Less refined too.  I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to...

Less refined too. 

I sincerely hope they stay on DOT fluid as long as the brakes are as good as they are. I don't want to deal with some proprietary baby oil fluid... 

metadave wrote:
But it's the best, it keeps my skin soft after a day of bleeds.. The DB8's lever feel is excellent but I've yet to have any...

But it's the best, it keeps my skin soft after a day of bleeds..

The DB8's lever feel is excellent but I've yet to have any real world feed back if them being ridden hard on long descents. I'm a Shimano brakes guy but I do enjoy a properly set up pair of codes from time to time. 

Onawalk wrote:
Rode a pair in Costa Rica on a Trek Rail, was surprised by how much they felt exactly like my Code brakes, as far as I...

Rode a pair in Costa Rica on a Trek Rail, was surprised by how much they felt exactly like my Code brakes, as far as I was concerned they were indistinguishable from them.

it was my first time on an electric mountain moped as well, had a great ol time.  The entry level suspension on that Rail was really impressive feeling.  Bike was brand new, I was the first to get it dirty.

You Sir experienced the benefit of high sprung mass. Moped are great at making any suspension feel appropriate, even stuff that would feel like garbage on a Mtb. But yeah, sprung/unsprung mass ratio doesn't matter apparently lol. 

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Karabuka
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1/24/2023 10:46am
baronKanon wrote:
Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use...

Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use it for all of my brakes.

And: has any one of you actually boiled your brake fluid?

We are all the best riders you can find on this globe, just a bit shy to go out and dominated world cup racing, but we do indeed boil our brake fluid every morning on our warm up ride before breakfast!

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Primoz
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1/24/2023 10:53am
baronKanon wrote:
Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use...

Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use it for all of my brakes.

And: has any one of you actually boiled your brake fluid?

DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue. 

If the mineral oil brake guys agreed on a standard and all ran the same off the shelf fluid available in every town, I don't have an issue. 

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1/24/2023 11:04am
Primoz wrote:
DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue.  If the mineral...

DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue. 

If the mineral oil brake guys agreed on a standard and all ran the same off the shelf fluid available in every town, I don't have an issue. 

DOT X is not DOT X, though. They only need to be according to a standard regarding base of the fluid and boiling point etc, but there are many different fluids with different properties around. For oil, just run Bionol, which has low viscosity, high boiling point and is much better for the environment. And you can almost drink it, so nothing bad for your health either. The HSE guys will be cheerinh

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TimBud
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1/24/2023 11:06am

Who actually governs and inspects the quality of DOT though?

Shimano mineral oil will always be Shimano mineral oil, just like Maguara’s Royal Blood will always be Royal Blood. Because they’re the only ones that produce it.

You can buy cheaper versions but whats the point when you only save a few pennies?

Meanwhile, DOT is made by every bugger and there’s no way the plant in China (or wherever) will have the same qc as one in the US. We only use Motul branded DOT 5.1 at work because at least theres a consistency with 1 manufacturer.

 

kcy4130
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1/24/2023 11:48am

DOT = Department of Transportation (in the US anyways), right? Brake failure on cars/semi is a big fucking deal, hence regulated by the DOT. 

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kcy4130
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1/24/2023 11:53am

What are the chances that sram switches all brakes to mineral oil but makes sure to use a mineral oil that’s incompatible with shimano’s mineral oil. That’d be just like the bike industry!

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nskerb
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1/24/2023 12:13pm

Pretty big assumption saying that either Shimano or Mangura produce their own mineral oil lol. 

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TimBud
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1/24/2023 12:35pm
nskerb wrote:

Pretty big assumption saying that either Shimano or Mangura produce their own mineral oil lol. 

In the same way that  all DOT 5.1 is the same right, lol.

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1
1/24/2023 4:21pm

I’ve been working thru the same bottle of shimano mineral oil for sometime now.  Even have used it to sharpen a knife when the honing oil i use was backordered.

 

not remotely expensive.  Put in smaller bottles for travel.  Infinitely more convenient than dot in practice.

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dolface
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1/24/2023 5:10pm

Can we table the "pick a brake fluid and be a dick about it" discussion and get back to tech rumors please?

Mr.Nally
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AS
1/24/2023 11:38pm

Bike nerds will fight about anything.

 

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1/25/2023 12:32am

Has anyone heard something new about the supposed highish-pivot Trek Slash? Smile

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C-LION
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CH
1/25/2023 5:46am

New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…

5CBF3C12-1ED3-40C2-A5D6-173C6288DE40

 

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1/25/2023 6:24am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2023 6:24am
C-LION wrote:
New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…  

New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…

5CBF3C12-1ED3-40C2-A5D6-173C6288DE40

 

Def looks like 38mm. Bring on March23

metadave
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1/25/2023 7:11am
C-LION wrote:
New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…  

New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…

5CBF3C12-1ED3-40C2-A5D6-173C6288DE40

 

Def looks like 38mm. Bring on March23

15x110 axle too?

That would be a sad day when 20mm completely goes away.... 

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1/25/2023 7:24am

Def looks like 38mm. Bring on March23

15x110 axle too?

metadave wrote:

That would be a sad day when 20mm completely goes away.... 

Dunno, am no engineer but the move to 38mm stanchions and different lower casting could maybe help with the stiffness/compliance and negate the need of such a beefy axle? I've been riding a Zeb in some pretty rough stuff and never wanted a stiffer feeling fork. I remember the older fox 40's being way too stiff

1/25/2023 7:34am

Depends on what stiffnes you’re talking about. I’ve gone from a 40 to the Dorado and the fore-aft stiffnes is massively different (in a very good way) which you immediately notice on the trail.


I don’t think these 38mm chassis really help you because it is more or less neglectable because the crown/steerer interface is what’s making the biggest difference. You could have the biggest stanchions in the world but if they’re only so „weakly“ attached to the crowns/steerer interface thats quite pointless.

Anyway that’s just my opinion Smile

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dylanjp006
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Location
Palmerston North NZ
1/25/2023 10:51am

Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate 2BC35EFB-39B8-48F9-904A-EF86DF22564F

 

1/25/2023 11:06am
dylanjp006 wrote:
Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate   

Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate 2BC35EFB-39B8-48F9-904A-EF86DF22564F

 

Its pretty common for early press photos to be on whatever bike they could get to them immediately, so its often the previous years stock-standard bike thats a size too small with a few minor parts that aren't sponsor-accurate. Then you'll slowly start seeing new content with the proper spec for the new year. It always seems to be way more manic to get riders their proper kit in time for the race season than it would appear from the outside. 

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