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MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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11/20/2021 12:42 PM

Fred_Pop wrote:

So that's the new ethirteen assegai then. Looks interesting.

It looks to me like the central lugs are a bit wider, than the ones on the Assegai, and maybe a bit shorter in terms of length, and they're definitely quite squared off. Though it's hard to realistically compare based off of pics. Seems like braking traction should be pretty darn good if that's the case.

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11/21/2021 10:56 AM

Mr.Nally wrote:

Anyone know what this proto-looking tire on Myriam Nicole's bike is? A Schwalbe Magic Mike?


Photo

Looks like the dry tire they have been testing since Maribor

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11/21/2021 2:58 PM

iceman2058 wrote:

Well, this looks interesting...

...more

jonkranked wrote:

that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?

French Flyers

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11/21/2021 9:55 PM

The e13 Grappler (their version of Assegai) was supposed to be available at the end of April. Then it got pushed and pushed...

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11/24/2021 6:38 AM

Downhill2407 wrote:

Nothing really new just new colors and back to Öhlins Suspension Photo
Photo

The prices increase a lot! +2.000k€ compared to the Demo Race 29 from 2020 for basically the same spec. bike.

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11/24/2021 2:29 PM

idk if you care but alloy versions of the new levo are coming. Also a comp version of the new levo(carbon).

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11/25/2021 1:58 PM

DH_Speedster wrote:

The prices increase a lot! +2.000k compared to the Demo Race 29 from 2020 for basically the same spec. bike.

Not sure if you’re aware, but currently the prices of metal have gone through the roof. Steel and lead prices are mental right now so I assume aluminium’s gone up as well.

No idea on the price of carbon fibre.

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11/26/2021 12:47 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/26/2021 12:50 AM

Downhill2407 wrote:

Nothing really new just new colors and back to Öhlins Suspension Photo
Photo

DH_Speedster wrote:

The prices increase a lot! +2.000k compared to the Demo Race 29 from 2020 for basically the same spec. bike.

Zero Cool wrote:

Not sure if you’re aware, but currently the prices of metal have gone through the roof. Steel and lead prices are mental right ...more

I'm aware of that but never...really never by 2,000€! This is ridiculous and rips off the customer.

It was the same with the Intense M29.

2019 Frame: 2.500€
2020 Frame: 3.500€ (After signing with Gwin)
2021 Frame: 3.000€ (Maybe they have noticed it themselves)

Apart from the fact that they are actually never available.

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11/26/2021 4:09 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

The prices increase a lot! +2.000k compared to the Demo Race 29 from 2020 for basically the same spec. bike.

Zero Cool wrote:

Not sure if you’re aware, but currently the prices of metal have gone through the roof. Steel and lead prices are mental right ...more

DH_Speedster wrote:

I'm aware of that but never...really never by 2,000! This is ridiculous and rips off the customer.

It was the same with the ...more

the base level alloy tues was 2700e with fox suspensions just a few years back

now the base alloy tues (the frame still from '18 witth non metric shock for example) is 3500 with rockshox suspensions, which I'd say is step down from fox "entry level" dh stuff

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11/26/2021 4:44 AM

Zero Cool wrote:

Not sure if you’re aware, but currently the prices of metal have gone through the roof. Steel and lead prices are mental right ...more

DH_Speedster wrote:

I'm aware of that but never...really never by 2,000! This is ridiculous and rips off the customer.

It was the same with the ...more

bike_futurist wrote:

the base level alloy tues was 2700e with fox suspensions just a few years back

now the base alloy tues (the frame still from ...more

Yeah, same here.
I'm just saying that this is taking the piss out of the customer...raw material prices because corona or not.

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11/26/2021 4:49 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Yeah, same here.
I'm just saying that this is taking the piss out of the customer...raw material prices because corona or ...more

Brandon SWEARS this is not inflation. You dont understand the supply chain (apparently no one does......)

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/28/2021 5:03 AM

Downhill2407 wrote:

Nothing really new just new colors and back to Öhlins Suspension Photo
Photo

DH_Speedster wrote:

The prices increase a lot! +2.000k compared to the Demo Race 29 from 2020 for basically the same spec. bike.

Zero Cool wrote:

Not sure if you’re aware, but currently the prices of metal have gone through the roof. Steel and lead prices are mental right ...more

Yes, a Kg of raw Al is up to $2.62 now!

The cost of the bikes is in many things, but not the raw material costs of the Al.

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11/28/2021 6:40 AM

Considering business often like to operate on a ratio of cost vs sold price when it comes to selling parts, the difference in raw materials migh just balloon going through the supply chain.

Frame manufacturers likely don't buy raw aluminium, but buy some sort of extrusions that they then hydroform? Do they forge their own parts from blanks or buy special raw blanks? Etc.

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11/28/2021 7:10 AM

Primoz wrote:

Considering business often like to operate on a ratio of cost vs sold price when it comes to selling parts, the difference in ...more

You are correct. There is no bike company (that I have ever heard of) that has the ability to extrude their own tube sets. The ones who claim "custom-drawn" are real, they simply pay for tubes made to their specifications from whatever supplier they choose based on their criteria (ISO or otherwise). The same is true for all metals (Sandvik, Reynolds - https://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/ ) and many others. Most bike companies do not want to admit it but their "custom" tube is nothing more than a stock tube butted by the MFG for you, me, them, her, him and any other buyer who can get the quantity to place an order. This is not as true for Carbon (but someone has to make the sheets) and less with 3D Printing (however material source is spotty and quality can be questionable).

The US is the biggest culprit of massively higher prices due almost specifically to California and other states who have ignorant laws preventing the MFG of items based on being "Green". US companies have a massive cost overhead just to be up to standards of delusion (adding costs to the tune of thousands of percent) just to stay within guidelines. The simplest solution is to source materials from nations where the environment is not even an afterthought. A very large portion of the supply chain cost in the US is the cost of labor, insurance, OSHA, EPA, Comp and on and on and on - as we have seen so many do, just move over seas.

With the current fiasco in CA (and DC) we have added taxes, tariffs and regulations that prevent the easy and fast distribution of products that simply creates a penalty for all of us in all segments. To deny that fact is simply fool hardy....I mean, seriously, the cost of PORK is up a massive figure and that is 100% due to California...Until the US and other "Paris Accord" nations get a grip on reality (as in, China, India and on and on)...the only winners are going to be the taxing bodies. We as consumers (to quote Biden) "need to lower our expectations".

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/28/2021 7:19 AM

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/pm-riv-assy-d1

This is sold for 200 € in Germany. Any ideas when we can expect a MTB version? I mean surely it's coming? smile

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11/28/2021 10:57 AM

Primoz wrote:

Considering business often like to operate on a ratio of cost vs sold price when it comes to selling parts, the difference in ...more

FLFlatLander wrote:

You are correct. There is no bike company (that I have ever heard of) that has the ability to extrude their own tube sets. The ...more

im not sure where your downvotes are coming from, those same downvoters must be flat earth people and not believe in anything with factual data.

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11/28/2021 11:12 AM

noideamtber wrote:

im not sure where your downvotes are coming from, those same downvoters must be flat earth people and not believe in anything ...more

To quote Gore...inconvenient truth.

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/28/2021 11:43 AM

FLFlatLander wrote:

To quote Gore...inconvenient truth.

You got one from me because your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread... Most of the recent posts have had nothing to with it and it's making it all shit.

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11/28/2021 12:40 PM

noideamtber wrote:

im not sure where your downvotes are coming from, those same downvoters must be flat earth people and not believe in anything ...more

FLFlatLander wrote:

To quote Gore...inconvenient truth.

TimBud wrote:

You got one from me because your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread... Most of the recent posts have had ...more

Spot on sir!

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/28/2021 8:18 PM

Giant produces its own alloy products from start to finish: http://en.giant-alloy.com/index/pro_1/1.html

Lots of alloy frames and rims start at GLM

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11/29/2021 12:11 AM

watchcwgo wrote:

Giant produces its own alloy products from start to finish: http://en.giant-alloy.com/index/pro_1/1.html

Lots of alloy frames ...more

And, as I said...not JUST for bikes. Giant was a metal company long before a bike company. Good job being a skeptic, C+

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/29/2021 1:17 AM

Specialized Demo Race Frame 2020: 2.499€ with Öhlins TTX
Specialized Demo Race Frame 2021: 2.899€ with RS Deluxe
Specialized Demo Race Frame 2022: 3.600€ with Öhlins TTX

I don't want to read any campaign slogans from the Republican party right now. It's simply a fact that the customer is being fleeced here.

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11/29/2021 2:50 AM

The customer is not being fleeced, fact of the matter is that prices are going up everywhere.

Louis Vuitton backpacks are more expensive.
Salt Bae steaks are more expensive.
Lamborghini Urus' are more expensive.
Cryptopunk Twitter Avatars are more expensive.

If MTB brands don't put the prices up, how will the employees be able to buy all of the above? It's absolutely criminal that people who work in the industry can't buy themselves a new Richard Mille watch because consumers want cheaper bike parts...

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11/29/2021 3:05 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Specialized Demo Race Frame 2020: 2.499 with Öhlins TTX
Specialized Demo Race Frame 2021: 2.899 with RS Deluxe
Specialized ...more

It's not just price of raw materials that's causing issues with bike pricing, it's the way the entire industry is set up. Every component has so many steps before it gets into the consumers hands that the price increases exponentially if there's an issue.

For example, and please correct me of I'm wrong, Honda manufacturer's almost every part of an Enduro moto in house. They have complete control over almost all of their part supply chain other than raw materials to build that bike. They have all their engineers in house. They have all their testing in house. The only price increase you'll see on that moto is raw materials, shipping and wages

An Enduro mountain bike however, has components from various suppliers all over the world. Each if those components also have suppliers for parts, and the parts suppliers may even have suppliers for raw materials. Add in distribution channels, sales reps, shipping, labor between the various steps with everyone taking their small piece of mark up at each step and it starts to add up. Almost every single part is comes from a different supplier, or during different manufacturing cycles from the same one. Frame, cockpit, dropper, shock, fork, hubs, spokes, brakes, etc. How many MTB companies make their own product in house? Even their "In house components" are rarely in house. We're paying for 8 different companies engineering teams on every bike. Most are designing, outsourcing and shipping product that they either never touch, or gets shipped 5 times before it gets to their destination.

It's not that we're getting fleeced, it's that the cycling industry is wildly inefficient and has no way to control price increases if one things gets out of control because no one corrected how the industry grew 30 years ago. Now we're looking at huge cost increases in shipping, raw materials and labor due to demand. Imagine how cheap an all in house developed bike would be if they had a volume to do it. Giant is a great example as their bikes are usually 1000$ less than other brands because they have far less steps to have a finished product to the consumer.

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11/29/2021 3:38 AM

You´re all right, but I´m talking about a price increase of >20%. That is far above all market effects and I know what I´m talking about.

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11/29/2021 3:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/29/2021 4:03 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Youre all right, but Im talking about a price increase of >20%. That is far above all market effects and I know what Im ...more

It's simple economics. As metadave said cycling industry is inefficient for producing and since covid supply is in a bad condition, having a lot of steps in between producing can markup the market price a lot more than %20


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11/29/2021 4:22 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Specialized Demo Race Frame 2020: 2.499 with Öhlins TTX
Specialized Demo Race Frame 2021: 2.899 with RS Deluxe
Specialized ...more

metadave wrote:

It's not just price of raw materials that's causing issues with bike pricing, it's the way the entire industry is set up. ...more

But, where do you draw the line? Is a VERY skilled person's work not worth more? I do think that in the new world of 3D Printing SKILLS are losing their luster (for some generations).

To your point, is a SweetWings (EEWings) crankset worth the money? A handmade bike by top-tier person (not some hipster with a torch)? For me, certainly. But, I will not pay for a rip off Starbucks coffee....go figure.

Everything about our small (first world) market is about options. If you do not like the cost of XTR or XX1, well, friend, you have a ton of other options.

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Buttyo Sukenehr on Strava

11/29/2021 4:36 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Youre all right, but Im talking about a price increase of >20%. That is far above all market effects and I know what Im ...more

Noeserd wrote:

It's simple economics. As metadave said cycling industry is inefficient for producing and since covid supply is in a bad ...more

Not as easy as you may think. A lot of things are pushed through under the guise of Corona that would otherwise have been impossible.

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11/29/2021 4:43 AM

DH_Speedster wrote:

Youre all right, but Im talking about a price increase of >20%. That is far above all market effects and I know what Im ...more

Noeserd wrote:

It's simple economics. As metadave said cycling industry is inefficient for producing and since covid supply is in a bad ...more

DH_Speedster wrote:

Not as easy as you may think. A lot of things are pushed through under the guise of Corona that would otherwise have been ...more

You have a point too but we forget something, Dh sales are dropping each year and probably each frames cost raised since they produce less and less each year

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11/29/2021 6:45 AM

Anymore tech rumours rather than Economics lessons…?

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