2019 Racing Rumors

Create New Tag

9/13/2018 12:27 PM

Kona Source says Connor Fearon signed for another 3 years... Just hasn't been announced.

|

9/14/2018 12:00 PM

Volta55 wrote:

If this was already posted in this thread, shame me to hell.

https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/15764839

Windham 2019?

taldfind wrote:

Interesting. When I listened to the Martin Whitley podcast he mentioned a return for the WC to the USA, but I was under the impression it would be on the west coast. Gasp, could we be getting two WC rounds since the US is geographically so large?

onenerdykid* wrote:

The US being so large is a contributing factor to why they aren't more rounds in the USA. Most brands aren't equipped for it, as most of the support is in Euroland. Have two rounds, one east coast & one west coast, would piss off the teams and sponsors more than anything. Having two rounds close together (like previously with MSA/Bromont, MSA/Windham, etc. etc.) is more likely. If you are going to have multiple WC races in the USA, it needs to be more easily manageable than problematic.

Ummm, that's some weird logic that I think you are skewing with perception only, not reality. I'm going to start by guessing you're younger than me and take the dad tone.

So, the US market is monstrous and desirable to the bike companies because a large contingent of the primary players are US based. They'd love to have a World Cup here. It has NOTHING to do with brands being in Europe at ALL.
It has everything to do with the POPULARITY of the sport in other countries and the resorts in those countries being able to justify the EXPENSE of a World Cup on US soil.

Resorts in the US have one optic regarding the World Cup and that is that they LOST MONEY hosting them in the past. The TV money from Tailwind Sports and all the Lance Armstrong & Shaun Palmer crossover culture exposure talked US resorts into hosting a lot of World Cups, but most of them made no money.

The OPTICS for US resorts is that World Cup isn't a popular spectator sport here so it doesn't have that enticing revenue stream that comes with the UCI event. Winter World Cups are easier to host because of the mass of humanity that is already skiing and vacationing at the resorts.

|

9/14/2018 12:55 PM

bizutch wrote:

Ummm, that's some weird logic that I think you are skewing with perception only, not reality. I'm going to start by guessing you're younger than me and take the dad tone.

So, the US market is monstrous and desirable to the bike companies because a large contingent of the primary players are US based. They'd love to have a World Cup here. It has NOTHING to do with brands being in Europe at ALL.
It has everything to do with the POPULARITY of the sport in other countries and the resorts in those countries being able to justify the EXPENSE of a World Cup on US soil.

Resorts in the US have one optic regarding the World Cup and that is that they LOST MONEY hosting them in the past. The TV money from Tailwind Sports and all the Lance Armstrong & Shaun Palmer crossover culture exposure talked US resorts into hosting a lot of World Cups, but most of them made no money.

The OPTICS for US resorts is that World Cup isn't a popular spectator sport here so it doesn't have that enticing revenue stream that comes with the UCI event. Winter World Cups are easier to host because of the mass of humanity that is already skiing and vacationing at the resorts.

Thanks dad I'm 38 and from the Northeast, where I raced DH and worked in a bike shop for 9 years (that's just to give some perspective on where I'm coming from, nothing more). Some valid points for sure, nothing that really runs contrary to what I brought up. My point was not that the brands are based in Yurp, but that the vast majority of SUPPORT is, which is where a lot of cost is tied up. That's why it's a predominantly U-Haul & white tent affair at MSA. Few/no big rigs, not many fancy tents, even from the US-based brands. The vast majority of it all is in Europe and the cost of bringing it over is way too high. Combine that with Crankworx happening on the other side of the continent and it only compounds the problem even further. Which again highlights my point- with such a huge continent to hold races on, it doesn't make a lot of sense for brands to want to follow up MSA with Mammoth. From the brands' perspectives, making them crisscross the nation for two races is a waste of resources. It would be much better to do a Mammoth to Whistler or a MSA to Windham, for example.

As for spectator interest, I completely agree with you- it's nowhere near the level of Europe. Stateside, people are caught up in ball sports over the summer or going to the beach or having BBQs rather than watching cycling, of almost any form. I remember hearing a stat about Big Bear making more money in the first day of ski season than they made the entire summer for mountain biking. All of this adds up to brands not wanting to waste more money by having to crisscross the continent for two races. Ideally, there would be a string of them to justify the cost of providing racing support, which is very expensive.

|

9/14/2018 6:38 PM

There was a whole pinkbike/vital thing on whistler building a track specifically for world cup racing, maby 2 north america west coast rounds then over to msa? complete speculation

|

9/14/2018 8:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2018 8:17 PM

stringbean wrote:

There was a whole pinkbike/vital thing on whistler building a track specifically for world cup racing, maby 2 north america west coast rounds then over to msa? complete speculation

It was the new Stevie Smith trail. The thinking is that they could grab a WC race. However, Vail just purchased all the Intrawest properties so it would be up to them.

To me the big issue is the tv contract. In Canada Sportsnet one use to have the races on later in the day for a few years then it just stopped. I read bizutch's comment about ski racing. The one thing that sport has is a network tv contract. If I am correct NBC and CBC (sportsnet) have all the races on in the winter months on the weekend. Where I live, people watch this or pvr it. At least they have the opportunity to watch it on tv, WC racing, not so much.

Also, do the Euro races charge fans to enter the venue? I have been to MSA a shitload of times and never paid a dime to go (minus the hotel, beer, and gas for the 12 hour drive).

|

9/14/2018 8:27 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2018 8:29 PM

stringbean wrote:

There was a whole pinkbike/vital thing on whistler building a track specifically for world cup racing, maby 2 north america west coast rounds then over to msa? complete speculation

depeche4 wrote:

It was the new Stevie Smith trail. The thinking is that they could grab a WC race. However, Vail just purchased all the Intrawest properties so it would be up to them.

To me the big issue is the tv contract. In Canada Sportsnet one use to have the races on later in the day for a few years then it just stopped. I read bizutch's comment about ski racing. The one thing that sport has is a network tv contract. If I am correct NBC and CBC (sportsnet) have all the races on in the winter months on the weekend. Where I live, people watch this or pvr it. At least they have the opportunity to watch it on tv, WC racing, not so much.

Also, do the Euro races charge fans to enter the venue? I have been to MSA a shitload of times and never paid a dime to go (minus the hotel, beer, and gas for the 12 hour drive).

I believe MSA is suppose to charge, they even announce the fees and how to buy an entry to the event's grounds, but I've never heard of anyone actually buying a ticket... Maybe the UCI makes it mandatory for hosts to charge spectators a fee? If it's the case, I'd bet that MSA doesn't give a flying F and doesn't actually charge anyone. Judging by the magnitude of the event and all the sponsors on board, they have all the money they need. Why charge people and risking losing attendees?

|

9/14/2018 10:37 PM

Lošinj and Maribor were charging every time I went (twice in 07 and 08 for Maribor and this year for Lošinj). This only counts if you enter from the bottom where the gates are, you can enter from the top freely if i remember correctly.

|

9/15/2018 10:14 AM

Leogang does charge entry fees as well.

|

9/15/2018 10:37 AM

stringbean wrote:

There was a whole pinkbike/vital thing on whistler building a track specifically for world cup racing, maby 2 north america west coast rounds then over to msa? complete speculation

depeche4 wrote:

It was the new Stevie Smith trail. The thinking is that they could grab a WC race. However, Vail just purchased all the Intrawest properties so it would be up to them.

To me the big issue is the tv contract. In Canada Sportsnet one use to have the races on later in the day for a few years then it just stopped. I read bizutch's comment about ski racing. The one thing that sport has is a network tv contract. If I am correct NBC and CBC (sportsnet) have all the races on in the winter months on the weekend. Where I live, people watch this or pvr it. At least they have the opportunity to watch it on tv, WC racing, not so much.

Also, do the Euro races charge fans to enter the venue? I have been to MSA a shitload of times and never paid a dime to go (minus the hotel, beer, and gas for the 12 hour drive).

My guess is they are hoping for something similar to the Lenzerheide experience. 3 world cups followed by World Champs. The creekside area, where they are building the Stevie trail, is in need of more summer love and this would be another weekend that could work very well for it. They already have all the infrastructure in place due to the olympics too. World Champs 2022 in Whistler is my predictiong.

|

9/15/2018 2:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/15/2018 2:23 PM

Primoz wrote:

Lošinj and Maribor were charging every time I went (twice in 07 and 08 for Maribor and this year for Lošinj). This only counts if you enter from the bottom where the gates are, you can enter from the top freely if i remember correctly.

Whaaaat? F@ck that's a bummer! I have been to 5 WC (2011 La Bresse, 2 times Vallnord and 2 times Lourdes). I have never seen any kind of fee to enter the race!! oO
I actually did not even know that it was the case on other WC venues!

|

9/16/2018 3:03 AM

Fujimi Panorama is bringing in Martin Whiteley, a former UCI TD, in what could be a consulting role for a possible World Cup bid after the 2020 Olympics.

Considering that Asia hasn't had a World Cup since the beginning of this century (with attendance in the thousands at Arai, too), any new bids coming from Europe or North America need to be compelling ones to compete.

Or perhaps we may end up with more stops in the coming years? Not sure how the teams will react to a development like this though, budget-wise.

|

9/16/2018 3:19 AM

On the other hand, 6 rounds for a cup is kind of a joke compared to many other sports...

This is the FIS skiing world cup for 2019:
discipline: men/women rounds
slalom: 12/12
GS: 11/10
Super G: 10/9
DH: 10/10 plus like 3 days of training before each event
Combined: 3/3

So competitors for the large crystal globe (overall) easily do over 30 events/races (many events do multiple disciplines).

Going up to 10 UCI DH events shouldn't be much of a problem. I think the main issue might be the event organisers, UCI and so on, ut this is just an assumption, I don't have any info regarding this.

|

9/16/2018 4:34 AM

Primoz wrote:

On the other hand, 6 rounds for a cup is kind of a joke compared to many other sports...

This is the FIS skiing world cup for 2019:
discipline: men/women rounds
slalom: 12/12
GS: 11/10
Super G: 10/9
DH: 10/10 plus like 3 days of training before each event
Combined: 3/3

So competitors for the large crystal globe (overall) easily do over 30 events/races (many events do multiple disciplines).

Going up to 10 UCI DH events shouldn't be much of a problem. I think the main issue might be the event organisers, UCI and so on, ut this is just an assumption, I don't have any info regarding this.

In the next 3-4 years I can see the WC DH becoming similar to Formula One. Only elite top 20/30 riders at each event (chosen by teams instead of UCI points) Qualifying returns to normal and timings will fit better for TV.

With less riders the track will be in better condition, less expensive to run (maintenance, logistics?)

This could open the way to more resorts hosting a WC and more rounds per year.

|

9/16/2018 12:41 PM

ck85 wrote:

In the next 3-4 years I can see the WC DH becoming similar to Formula One. Only elite top 20/30 riders at each event (chosen by teams instead of UCI points) Qualifying returns to normal and timings will fit better for TV.

With less riders the track will be in better condition, less expensive to run (maintenance, logistics?)

This could open the way to more resorts hosting a WC and more rounds per year.

Remember that Formula One also has Two and Three, and a whole host of other car racing leagues exist too. If the UCI reduces the field of current World Cup competitors down to 30 (and remember it has already been reduced to 50 down from 80), then there needs to be a secondary competition series in place to deal with all of the other people who want to race professionally. Yes the IXS Cup exists, but more is needed. BUT I'm not sure there's enough interest or enough people do pull this off. Seems a bit unnecessary tbh.

Keep the field at 50, have more races.

|

9/16/2018 1:19 PM

onenerdykid* wrote:

Remember that Formula One also has Two and Three, and a whole host of other car racing leagues exist too. If the UCI reduces the field of current World Cup competitors down to 30 (and remember it has already been reduced to 50 down from 80), then there needs to be a secondary competition series in place to deal with all of the other people who want to race professionally. Yes the IXS Cup exists, but more is needed. BUT I'm not sure there's enough interest or enough people do pull this off. Seems a bit unnecessary tbh.

Keep the field at 50, have more races.

*60

|

9/16/2018 9:39 PM

Formula 2, 3 and so on are almost exclusively feeding series for young racers gunning for F1. But only ~20 get to race F1 each year with a ton of other people racing different series with different cars. We don't have that different bikes, but what we do have, is also covered - XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. These should all be viewed in the same manner as the other racing series with cars.

As for professional racing in other series:
1.) you mentioned IXS, which is exactly where i would point my finger, together with other continental, national, etc., series. But given the state of the national cup in Slovenia, this might be an issue (the amount of racers and amount of races is arguably quite low).
2.) you said other series to race professionally. How, when people race at the amateur level (i.e. they are not paid and buy their own gear) in the world cup?

But i still think all the people not being able to get into the world cup would strengthen other series, since they would have to race there to get UCI points. Kinda like how the Brits invaded Romania and other European countries with weaker series to get UCI points to be able to race the WC (at the amateur level of support of course).

|

9/16/2018 9:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/16/2018 9:59 PM

Primoz wrote:

Formula 2, 3 and so on are almost exclusively feeding series for young racers gunning for F1. But only ~20 get to race F1 each year with a ton of other people racing different series with different cars. We don't have that different bikes, but what we do have, is also covered - XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. These should all be viewed in the same manner as the other racing series with cars.

As for professional racing in other series:
1.) you mentioned IXS, which is exactly where i would point my finger, together with other continental, national, etc., series. But given the state of the national cup in Slovenia, this might be an issue (the amount of racers and amount of races is arguably quite low).
2.) you said other series to race professionally. How, when people race at the amateur level (i.e. they are not paid and buy their own gear) in the world cup?

But i still think all the people not being able to get into the world cup would strengthen other series, since they would have to race there to get UCI points. Kinda like how the Brits invaded Romania and other European countries with weaker series to get UCI points to be able to race the WC (at the amateur level of support of course).

I see your point and I mostly agree with it, but no Brit has ever invaded Romania MTB-wise. Yet. We have had Harry Heath and Robert Williams over in 2011, but Harry was a special guest and Rob heard of the race and decided to come along and returned the following year. It was a C1 race with excellent prize money; there were only 10 other C1 level events in the world in those years. I believe you are mistaking Romania with Bulgaria, where they run some excellent races and a lot of Brits attend, but there are deeper ties there, as Bulgarian brands have been sponsoring some Brits in the past and tried to push their product on the island. For example RAM with Martin Ogden, but there are other cases too, can't quite remember the names.

|

9/16/2018 10:05 PM

Romania/Bulgaria mixup could be the thing here. I remember reading how due to the stacked national field the Brits have to look elsewhere to get unto the world cup and that the locals suffer due to these expeditions. While this may be the case, the level of competition does nevertheless rise in such cases, which is good for the local scene.

|

9/16/2018 10:23 PM

Primoz wrote:

Romania/Bulgaria mixup could be the thing here. I remember reading how due to the stacked national field the Brits have to look elsewhere to get unto the world cup and that the locals suffer due to these expeditions. While this may be the case, the level of competition does nevertheless rise in such cases, which is good for the local scene.

I think that’s a fair point. If the locals can’t beat the brits coming over to get the points they also won’t be qualifying on the World Cup anyway, so it’s a kind of moot point

|

9/16/2018 11:21 PM

Primoz wrote:

Formula 2, 3 and so on are almost exclusively feeding series for young racers gunning for F1. But only ~20 get to race F1 each year with a ton of other people racing different series with different cars. We don't have that different bikes, but what we do have, is also covered - XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. These should all be viewed in the same manner as the other racing series with cars.

As for professional racing in other series:
1.) you mentioned IXS, which is exactly where i would point my finger, together with other continental, national, etc., series. But given the state of the national cup in Slovenia, this might be an issue (the amount of racers and amount of races is arguably quite low).
2.) you said other series to race professionally. How, when people race at the amateur level (i.e. they are not paid and buy their own gear) in the world cup?

But i still think all the people not being able to get into the world cup would strengthen other series, since they would have to race there to get UCI points. Kinda like how the Brits invaded Romania and other European countries with weaker series to get UCI points to be able to race the WC (at the amateur level of support of course).

But XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. are not exclusive feeding series for DH. Sure there is a little crossover, but it's not like it is for F1, so no they should not be viewed in the same way. My point was to show that if you are going to cut the main DH series back to the top 30 people, then there needs to be more investment for the rest of the pros & privateers so they can race and not get screwed. But, again, are there enough DH racers to warrant different professional leagues? I don't think so, so don't reduce the UCI Elite field to 30.

|

9/16/2018 11:31 PM

If the UCI/Promoters want to increase numbers at events, bring back how it USED to be.....a full 4 days of riding/racing. Practice on Thursday, 4X and DS prelims Friday night/Saturday morning, 4X/DS semis and finals Saturday Night with DH Qualifications early afternoon and then DH finals on Sunday. The killed 4X as it "wasnt popular" but do the UCI see what is happening with 4X pro tour?
We are not like F1, never will be. I would like to see more rounds that are more across the world, not just Europe and North America. Bring back Oz, NZ and SA as regular stops and maybe include an Asian or South American round. Extend the season to 10 races plus world champs. The UCI should stop charging such massive fees for a venue to host an event.

|

9/16/2018 11:36 PM

Well team rumours has got boring!

Not a rumour but one for the oldies , Look who's back



|

9/16/2018 11:40 PM

peecee wrote:

Well team rumours has got boring!

Not a rumour but one for the oldies , Look who's back



Whaaaat? It was not that many years ago I got rid of my last IRC Piranha Pro front skinwall tire. That was something in the "good" old days of skinny, flimsy, slippery tires..

|

9/16/2018 11:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/17/2018 12:08 AM

Primoz wrote:

Formula 2, 3 and so on are almost exclusively feeding series for young racers gunning for F1. But only ~20 get to race F1 each year with a ton of other people racing different series with different cars. We don't have that different bikes, but what we do have, is also covered - XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. These should all be viewed in the same manner as the other racing series with cars.

As for professional racing in other series:
1.) you mentioned IXS, which is exactly where i would point my finger, together with other continental, national, etc., series. But given the state of the national cup in Slovenia, this might be an issue (the amount of racers and amount of races is arguably quite low).
2.) you said other series to race professionally. How, when people race at the amateur level (i.e. they are not paid and buy their own gear) in the world cup?

But i still think all the people not being able to get into the world cup would strengthen other series, since they would have to race there to get UCI points. Kinda like how the Brits invaded Romania and other European countries with weaker series to get UCI points to be able to race the WC (at the amateur level of support of course).

onenerdykid* wrote:

But XC, Enduro, 4X, Slopestyle, etc. are not exclusive feeding series for DH. Sure there is a little crossover, but it's not like it is for F1, so no they should not be viewed in the same way. My point was to show that if you are going to cut the main DH series back to the top 30 people, then there needs to be more investment for the rest of the pros & privateers so they can race and not get screwed. But, again, are there enough DH racers to warrant different professional leagues? I don't think so, so don't reduce the UCI Elite field to 30.

I never said 4x is a feeder series. I did however say F1 has feeder series, from where people, that don't get into F1, sometimes go to other series. Which are like 4X, XC and the like. I mean there is some crossover, but not much between F1 and the likes of WEC, WTCC, DTM, WRC, WRX, Blancplain GT3, VLN, Indy, etc. Just like you have stage and single day road races, velodrome, DH, XC, 4X,slopestyle, etc. Completely different styles of racing.

Edit: motorsports is probably not the best analogy, I think ski racing is somewhat better but still not the best since mountain biking is after all a different sport altogether.

|

9/17/2018 2:51 AM

OK, back on team rumours......Atherton's off Trek and taking their travelling freak show elsewhere? Seems logical, look at Gee's recent IG posts, stopped tagging Trek. The did the same when they left Commencal and also GT. Writing is on the wall there, but where will they land? Connor has another 2 years on his Kona contract, so he isnt going anywhere and I think Dean Lucas will be staying put at Intense, he fits the mould so well and enjoys travelling with Shark Attack too much.

|

9/17/2018 3:21 AM

crooksy wrote:

OK, back on team rumours......Atherton's off Trek and taking their travelling freak show elsewhere? Seems logical, look at Gee's recent IG posts, stopped tagging Trek. The did the same when they left Commencal and also GT. Writing is on the wall there, but where will they land? Connor has another 2 years on his Kona contract, so he isnt going anywhere and I think Dean Lucas will be staying put at Intense, he fits the mould so well and enjoys travelling with Shark Attack too much.

I'm going with Scott

|

9/17/2018 3:25 AM

What happens with the factory team then? It seems they roll over the factory team wherever they go.

|

9/17/2018 3:33 AM

Primoz wrote:

What happens with the factory team then? It seems they roll over the factory team wherever they go.

It was just something I'd heard the other day, a rumour my bud had heard in the bike shop he works at

|

9/17/2018 3:46 AM

Primoz wrote:

What happens with the factory team then? It seems they roll over the factory team wherever they go.

The Athertons own the team, it's just a change of title sponsor each time they move to a new bike.

|

9/17/2018 3:49 AM

That I know. Doesn't change the fact that Trek Factory Racing was wound down before Athertons came. And the GT factory team. Commencal made a new team after the Athertons left, just like GT again.

|