That escalated quickly. I'm saying that your "contrary" account has facts that are agreeable. The difference is the interpretation of the facts. The big picture usually has perspectives coming from multiple angles. I'm not denying yours, I'm adding to ... more »

Sounds like you convinced yourself that you didn't have to adapt to the bike's geo that much, and felt the negative traits of heavy weight bias up front, which I expected. Do you usually try to shift hips more forward on climbs or only on your friend's ... more »

What was so terrifying about your friend's bike? What was the risk? Placing the front wheel improperly and going OTB?

Can you confirm what bike it is and what size? I presumed it was a SBG transition patrol in size L. I'll find a replacement that shows central positioning I guess. Hard to find examples... Here's one that shows behind-the-saddle positioning: https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/27/2019-norco-fluid-fs-an-all-new-affordable-aluminum-trail-bike/

... more »

I'm confused by how my post could be read so different from its literal wording. Pay attention to the caption under A, and relate it to the last line in the post. It's all about rider positioning, and why it must adapt that way to the geo. This thread

... more »

Observe:

A. Predicted Dengfu riding position B. Sam Hill on Med Mega 27.5 C. Modern short CS bike in L When you are at your limits of traction and stability, you better have your body positioned properly, if you don't want ... more »

@Verbal Kint That bike would be immediately crossed off my own list. To balance out a RC of 452mm on an Enduro plow bike, I'd want a FC of 865. To balance out a FC of 737mm, I'd want a RC of 415. I don't go by FC or RC ratio. Not sure what R-M-R sees ... more »

I cannot unlink CS length from the FC or WB. This is a vital relationship that determines the bike's weight distro bias. Steve@Vorsprung's video should've emphasized how important this is. Reach is a different matter. The main point on which I disagree

... more »

@R-M-R Surprised you didn't get offended at me for figuring that you were seemingly wanting something similar to JFL1200, with extremely long CS (460+mm) and more on the defensive (behind the BB by well over half a foot 160+mm) side of the positioning

... more »

Conservative geo is just another way of saying it's similar to old school geo. Shouldn't be judged as bad, wrong, good, right, etc. It should only be judged if it suits you. To know that, you should know yourself first, and your demands (trail difficulty, ... more »

Trade-off(s) of long CS: should be balanced by longer FC, and therefore results in a long wheelbase. A long wheelbase numbs the "feedback" you get from the trail and disrupts the timing you use for pumping the trail, making it feel like you're going ... more »

I do question if playfulness is in the geo. I think it's possible to make a bike playful through general frame and wheel feedback, and suspension tune. Progressive suspension with rebound run fairly open with progressive spring rate, tires pumped pretty ... more »

@Allen_Gleckner Hope others forgive me for speaking for them, but I feel this question is about a general fundamental issue I can answer. I just want to clarify that a balanced bike is just easier to ride, since less effort is required to compensate ... more »

@HeatproofGenie Marino bike. They've had my money (small deposit) for a month or so. Week 1: no update, other customer orders. Week 2: front tacked, news of other orders being finished. Week 3: front welded, rear tri tacked and attached, but dropouts ... more »

@jeff.brines Leave if the thread you started isn't to one's liking? What's going on? Is this a personal issue with CS length we're discussing in this thread, or a fundamental issue with the state of bike geo design? If you're inclined to claim leadership/ownership ... more »

Since your response was defensive, and biased, let me rephrase my post simply: Point 1: how much confidence do you have in your ideas and understandings? How about you put them to the test somehow, before jumping to conclusions. Point 2: how about you ... more »

@jeff.brines If Vorsprung confirmed your hypothesis 100%, why aren't you confident enough to put money down on it yourself and get a bike based off of it? What do you need from us, if not to be contrary or double check? I've already pretty said Steve's ... more »

Would it not be cool if such a casual standing position were the position you plowed and cornered in, if you could design geo to be balanced around it? Of course, you'd want to get your CoG lower, but the idea of not having to strain yourself to give ... more »