MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Noeserd
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Noeserd 4/11/2022 5:57pm
4/11/2022 5:57pm
One can hope


1
bulletbass man 4/11/2022 9:26pm
4/11/2022 9:26pm
Sol.Cob wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12369/s1200_14F8AEC1_7980_44B5_B9F7_244ED50F2756.jpg[/img]

boozed wrote:
I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
Oem sales on high end builds is about it. I expect ext to be right up there with ohlins in coming years at least in the us.
luisgutrod 4/11/2022 9:29pm
4/11/2022 9:29pm
Noeserd wrote:
One can hope [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12372/s1200_Screenshot_20220412_035638_Instagram.jpg[/img]
One can hope


just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner of first gen orange destroyer
hitar_potar 4/12/2022 12:32am
4/12/2022 12:32am
Noeserd wrote:
One can hope [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12372/s1200_Screenshot_20220412_035638_Instagram.jpg[/img]
One can hope


luisgutrod wrote:
just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner...
just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner of first gen orange destroyer
Agreed on the stretching - bring the sizing to 2022 levels. Also can modify the suspension to a highish-pivot design. All else is perfect! Smile
melonhead1145 4/12/2022 1:54am
4/12/2022 1:54am
Sol.Cob wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12369/s1200_14F8AEC1_7980_44B5_B9F7_244ED50F2756.jpg[/img]

boozed wrote:
I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.

I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
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boozed
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boozed 4/12/2022 2:31am
4/12/2022 2:31am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2022 2:33am
melonhead1145 wrote:
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.

I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the same space – so I can't see there being much pressure for them to follow. Or even if they do, it isn't "disruption" if they're still #1 and #2 at the end of the day.
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Sonofbovril2 4/12/2022 2:36am
4/12/2022 2:36am
melonhead1145 wrote:
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.

I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
boozed wrote:
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the...
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the same space – so I can't see there being much pressure for them to follow. Or even if they do, it isn't "disruption" if they're still #1 and #2 at the end of the day.
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.

Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
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boozed
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boozed 4/12/2022 2:39am
4/12/2022 2:39am
boozed wrote:
Received an email from Vitus overnight about its 2022 releases. The Escarpe, which is only just over a year old, will receive a "frame update" ([i]not[/i]...
Received an email from Vitus overnight about its 2022 releases. The Escarpe, which is only just over a year old, will receive a "frame update" (not a new frame) in April. Presumably they'll also take the opportunity to beef up the spec.
So this one slipped under the radar a little bit. The Escarpe's spec went unchanged, prices went up and some of the new colours are quite nice but the frame update turned out to be a carbon rear triangle.

And by now everyone's probably already seen the prototype Mythique replacement that was at Sea Otter.
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baronKanon 4/12/2022 3:07am
4/12/2022 3:07am
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this...
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.

Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was bad, but people couldn't set it up, causing people having bad experiences with a good product. It is better to provide a product that 95% of the users can set up easily, than one that <10% of the users may understand.
9
lickmycrinkle
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lickmycrinkle 4/12/2022 4:05am
4/12/2022 4:05am
Sol.Cob wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12369/s1200_14F8AEC1_7980_44B5_B9F7_244ED50F2756.jpg[/img]

boozed wrote:
I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
melonhead1145 wrote:
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.

I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
Chickadeehill would like a word with you about that 3 chamber statement.
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1
Sol.Cob 4/12/2022 4:08am
4/12/2022 4:08am
boozed wrote:
I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
melonhead1145 wrote:
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.

I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
lickmycrinkle wrote:
Chickadeehill would like a word with you about that 3 chamber statement.
“one of the first”
jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/12/2022 7:00am
4/12/2022 7:00am
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this...
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.

Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
baronKanon wrote:
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was...
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was bad, but people couldn't set it up, causing people having bad experiences with a good product. It is better to provide a product that 95% of the users can set up easily, than one that <10% of the users may understand.
i remember when CC initially released the Helm, they stated in an interview that they experimented with a dual positive air setup and they came to essentially the same conclusion
nskerb
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nskerb 4/12/2022 7:06am
4/12/2022 7:06am
EXT Shock.

1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there.

2: Triple chamber air shock to feel more linear. Have you considered a coil...
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6
baronKanon 4/12/2022 7:13am
4/12/2022 7:13am
nskerb wrote:
EXT Shock. 1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there. 2: Triple...
EXT Shock.

1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there.

2: Triple chamber air shock to feel more linear. Have you considered a coil...
1. I guess you work for free, then. Since you do not feel people deserve getting paid for their job.
2. You cannot tune the end stroke on a coil as with a triple chamber air.
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1
Brevard_Bikewrench 4/12/2022 8:23am
4/12/2022 8:23am
Over a week after April fools, and Sram is at it again. Looks like they will have a new E-bike specific brake using MINERAL OIL! The DB8 uses green maxima mineral oil according to Sram’s YouTube channel.

Sram Mineral Oil brake bleed
10
Primoz
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Primoz 4/12/2022 8:29am
4/12/2022 8:29am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2022 8:34am
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.

BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?

Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever Smile
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?

5
mtbAndy
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mtbAndy 4/12/2022 9:26am
4/12/2022 9:26am
What is the handlebar button? Maybe a lockout lever?
Primoz
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Primoz 4/12/2022 9:29am
4/12/2022 9:29am
Ebike controls.
1
jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/12/2022 9:34am
4/12/2022 9:34am
mtbAndy wrote:
What is the handlebar button? Maybe a lockout lever?
ebike control switch. that appears to be where specialized places it.
jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/12/2022 9:47am
4/12/2022 9:47am
landing page is active too:

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1

DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.

MSRP
$137

MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1

FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
2
Christiaan_van der Laan 4/12/2022 9:51am
4/12/2022 9:51am
jonkranked wrote:
landing page is active too: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1 DESCRIPTION DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance...
landing page is active too:

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1

DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.

MSRP
$137

MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1

FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
Page not found?
Primoz
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Primoz 4/12/2022 9:58am
4/12/2022 9:58am
Works for me.

The MSRP is 148 € over here in EUrope, Code R is 190, Code RSC is 301. Street price for a pair of RSCs is 300 € currently, so 75/150 € for a single/pair of DB8? Smile
microwaveric 4/12/2022 9:59am
4/12/2022 9:59am
Podcast review of the DB8
jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/12/2022 10:00am
4/12/2022 10:00am
jonkranked wrote:
landing page is active too: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1 DESCRIPTION DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance...
landing page is active too:

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1

DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.

MSRP
$137

MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1

FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
Christiaan_van der Laan wrote:
Page not found?
could be geo restricted?


Primoz
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Primoz 4/12/2022 10:06am
4/12/2022 10:06am
Oooooooh, aimed at the OE market. That would explain some logic behind the mineral oil. I think I've heard mineral oil is prefered by the assemblers because it's less messy.

Personally I hope Sram doesn't move away from DOT brakes. With all the 'benefits' mineral oil gives it's a real shitstorm as every manufacturer uses their own special formulation, that is not compatible with the other manufacturers, there have been cases of seal damage by mixing manufacturers apparently, etc. DOT is simple, there's a standard, you can mix them to your heart's content, even 5.1 with 4 and 3, you can get them in any automotive shop, etc.

I honestly don't see the rage for mineral oil, if it was THAT superior, automotive would have used it ages ago. But even Citroen, the sole mineral oil brake fluid user, moved away from it on the C5 with hydropneumatic suspension (previous models used LHM because the suspension and brake circuits were interconnected). Sure, bikes != automotive, but I guess bikes could take quite a few good practices from the automotive world Smile
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1
Brian_Peterson 4/12/2022 10:36am
4/12/2022 10:36am
Primoz wrote:
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video. BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for...
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.

BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?

Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever Smile
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?

I get a minimum of 2 emails per response posted here...
2
AndehM
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AndehM 4/12/2022 10:42am
4/12/2022 10:42am
Primoz wrote:
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video. BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for...
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.

BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?

Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever Smile
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?

Brian_Peterson wrote:
I get a minimum of 2 emails per response posted here...
Apparently most people haven't noticed that after you click "Submit", it takes the gerbils powering the VitalMTB forums a minimum of 2 minutes to fulfill their request, and keep clicking "Submit" a dozen or so times.
12
TimBud
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TimBud 4/12/2022 10:56am
4/12/2022 10:56am
The automotive industry has stuck with DOT because by some impossible miracle they've actually managed create a standard.
The bike industry is just not mature enough to stick with anything that even remotely resembles a standard so while mineral oils have their benefits (don't absorb water as soon as they're opened; can last for years in a system with little maintenance...)
For me the biggest problem with mineral oils is always with the end user. We all try to to mix and match (for many reasons - availability, stubbornness, cost, "any mineral oil will work", etc.) our fluids and when it goes wrong we always blame the manufacturer.
The automotive industry cannot afford the risk that every back street garage will just use whatever cheap mineral oil they can find when they're working on vehicles. Plus a tiny percentage of users actually maintain their own vehicles, whereas everyone thinks they can maintain a bike.
No one has died because of Shimano's "wandering bite point", which from my experience is almost always down to the wrong fluid (even from factory) but if there was a similar situation with cars there would be a lot of deaths.

(apologies for th incoherent ramble)
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