We'll Do It Ourselves!

You should be more specific and say "Gravity Racing", USAC still supports the other disciplines. However, you are right, many new platforms of racing that offer an improved product than your current XC platforms are gaining popularity. Namely All Mountain and stage racing, where a participant gets a good return experience on their investment.

Since there is no support for gravity racing, then yes, series like Fluidride, MSC and Gravity East will flourish. The only hope for an increase in support from USAC would be if DH or 4X became an Olympic sport.

Bottom line, support your local gravity races by participating. Don't be let down by the organization, feel empowered to have better control over our sport because of this situation. What a great value most DH races offer; several hours of practice on a closed course + timed run. All for under 100 bucks usually!!

Chimp

It is possible single weekend events are the future of the sport sadly. with numbers waning on the MSC and numbers getting bigger at local race series events like this and the NW cup and the inland NW series (and I hear getting bigger for Gravity East) it would be nice if USAC would take notice of what is going on. Jeremiah puts on great events with the national gravity series picking up where NORBA left us but there is so much nonconformity among all the events.

A racer or a team can attend maybe 2 large events a year and spend the rest of their money on a regional series like MSC or Gravity East and come out with a regional rank and earn USAC points but never know what their overall national rank really is without going head to head against those that race in whatever event series is deemed to be the "official national points series."
Racing regionally is awesome and single weekend events are awesome also because they allow lower budget riders and teams to concentrate on that region rather than chasing national points and spending tons of cash for a $10 medal at the end of the season and bragging rights.

I can put on a race in my home town and call it the undisputed championship of the freemarket universe, charge $5 to enter and split the entry fees among all who race, fastest one down gets bragging rights and maybe $5 back, we all go down to the pub and spend that $5 on a pint and are stoked.

The point my feeble 1/2 a cup of coffee, jump-started brain is trying to convey is regional series events need to rise together and work together to create unity in race fees (KEEP THEY UNDER $40/RACE!!!), create a national ranking system that can be corroborated nation-wide with a series in the NW, SW, Rockey Mtns and East Coast. If a rider finishes 1st in their regional series will get X number of points. each series uses the same point structure so we end up having regionally ranked races and then have a one weekend event, winner take all National Championship race.

Basically we end up with a mini world cup series but on a small, AFFORDABLE scale. There can be random events like Triple DHip, Crankworks, etc that would just be that; a stand alone event.

thanks for letting me vent. hope some of this makes sense, I'll go sit down now.

We are seeing a rise in grassroots racing (again), which in turn is then being cherry picked to create a national series. I think this works quite well b/c it draws in the big guns to some smaller venues. I don't have anything really "new" to say (O.G. ^ said it pretty well), but I do have an idea for points structure: Take the FMB Tour from this years and use their point structure. Even their labeling system could be used, as we are on ski mountains, so a "diamond" and a "blue square" are common and understood terms. The system could be applied by length/time duration of course and difficulty as well as attendance. Or something along those lines. I'm just spit balling here. I think the way we are doing things is working well, and will get better as we tweak it to make it better. No need to reinvent the wheel on this one if we don't have to.

I would love to see some unity in the USA racing scene, whether it be combining all of the race series and creating a point system that would take into account the strength of the field and award points accordingly so there could actually be am overall top rider in the nation. Creating a West and East coast series makes sense too as it has worked for moto and at some point in the year combine the both for the National Championships. My biggest peeve with what goes on in Gravity racing is that the Governing body does not even consider their own rider points standings when selecting riders to represent our Nation in Worlds events. Its not a good system so they can't and sometimes it comes down to a popularity contest, or who can write a better resume, and sometimes riders don't even recieve information because the USAC doesn't bother to release it to the athletes.

I love what the Sol Vista Crew is doing, the US Open is always one of the best events and if every race was like Crankworx and others, then I could actually imagine making a living by competing for a descent size purse and recieving good exposure.

Anyways, I like where this is going!

Ironic that I just received an email from USAC to renew my license for 2011. Here it is (below). Anyone know anything about the development camps they speak of? I am pretty excited to get 15% off a sweet USAC t-shirt...


"As the 2010 racing season draws to a close, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued support of American cycling and remind you that 2011 membership licenses can be renewed beginning today (December 1) through your My USA Cycling account.

More than just a racing license:

In addition to allowing you to participate in competitive cycling events at the local, regional, national and international levels, your USA Cycling license also provides you with valuable membership benefits including discounts on gear, accessories, training tools, travel and much more.

We are constantly expanding our roster of Member Benefits Providers, and I encourage you to visit your My USA Cycling page on a regular basis to learn more about how these discounts can help you get even more enjoyment from your cycling endeavors.

And going on now through Friday, December 3, members can save 15 percent on everything EXCEPT hats in the USA Cycling merchandise store. Just use the code BF2010 when completing your purchase. You can also show your national pride on the bike with a USAC cycling kit; beginning December 1, our commemorative 2010 Masters World Championship Jersey will be on sale for $49.95.

Support your sport:

Fielding teams on the world stage isn’t the only mission of the USA Cycling National Development Program. Camps and clinics for promising American cyclists in all five disciplines help build the domestic racing scene, as well. The positive momentum of our recent national and international success is thanks in large part to the consistent annual giving of individual donors to USA Cycling and our Development Foundation.

I encourage you to consider supporting the future of American cycling and helping to drive the continued success of our athletes and programs by donating via the USA Cycling Development Foundation website at usacdf.org "

if you look back to what Terje Haakonsen did in snowbaording with the Arctic Challenge. dealing with the issues that arose from big time entities like the FIS and the USAC- it makes a lot of sense for riders to take back the direction of their sport.
eventually the Arctic Challenge set the groundwork for a whole new points system and internationally recognized ranking system for snowboarding, and opened up a whole new standard in competition formatting and judging.
here we are some 12 odd years later......
i think its time for ((((DH/ FR/ SS/ MTBX))) MTB to do the same, and i think the groundwerk is pretty set for it to be a successful effort.
as the local events grow and and learn to be finiincally successful, they will become their own beasts, and eventually, it would seem, they can begin to coagulate into a national set of coordinated points events.

i know here in the northwest, we have many venues that are perfect for enduro and a huge scene to support those types of events. not to mention many great dh venues, and huge FR scene, just brimming with stoke, waiting for at least two new bike parks to open.
Perhaps what we need is a bit of industry push. thats what happened with the Arctic Challenge and burton snowboards.
We all know that enduro type events cater to the core buyers in this industry, and the bulk of the bikes they own. seems like a good opportunity for some industry big shots to score some huge points with the culture......

We can do this. We will do this. It will be rad. And ill see you all there.

it's probably no surprise that i'm all for a break away gravity series. the ACTIONS (not words) of USAC show that their mountain bike focus is on XC, leaving gravity to suffer. it's been going on for a long time. these actions need response by gravity riders that is outside of the governing body. it is difficult and means sacrifice in some areas, but i hope the response of one-off events (non-USAC sanctioned) continues to grow and the current rise of on-off events is very promising.

the only down side of one-off events that i see right now is that some riders want to compete for world cup points and that requires sanctioning. the upside? YOU HAVE A SAY IN IT. attend non-USAC races and give it time. like the arctic challenge example that maximumradness stated or the FMB World Tour idea, eventually there will be enough one-off events to create a solid series and have an impact, if the one-off promoters want to come together.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides keeping track of points, Isn't the one thing that USAC provides is insurance for the venue/promoter and riders? Or something like that?

I've been a USAC member for over 6 years and don't even know what they provide, what is necessary, and what is just "bonus". A detailed list with explanations would be nice.

bturman wrote: Ironic that I just received an email from USAC to renew my license for 2011. Here it is (below). Anyone know anything about the development camps they speak of? I am pretty excited to get 15% off a sweet USAC t-shirt...


"As the 2010 racing season draws to a close, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued support of American cycling and remind you that 2011 membership licenses can be renewed beginning today (December 1) through your My USA Cycling account.

More than just a racing license:

In addition to allowing you to participate in competitive cycling events at the local, regional, national and international levels, your USA Cycling license also provides you with valuable membership benefits including discounts on gear, accessories, training tools, travel and much more.

We are constantly expanding our roster of Member Benefits Providers, and I encourage you to visit your My USA Cycling page on a regular basis to learn more about how these discounts can help you get even more enjoyment from your cycling endeavors.

And going on now through Friday, December 3, members can save 15 percent on everything EXCEPT hats in the USA Cycling merchandise store. Just use the code BF2010 when completing your purchase. You can also show your national pride on the bike with a USAC cycling kit; beginning December 1, our commemorative 2010 Masters World Championship Jersey will be on sale for $49.95.

Support your sport:

Fielding teams on the world stage isn’t the only mission of the USA Cycling National Development Program. Camps and clinics for promising American cyclists in all five disciplines help build the domestic racing scene, as well. The positive momentum of our recent national and international success is thanks in large part to the consistent annual giving of individual donors to USA Cycling and our Development Foundation.

I encourage you to consider supporting the future of American cycling and helping to drive the continued success of our athletes and programs by donating via the USA Cycling Development Foundation website at usacdf.org "

Turman,

I made a post in the Nationals thread commenting on that. Funny, I was hoping to hear a little more of your thoughts.


So I juts received my USAC License Renewal email, apparently it is More than just a racing license ooohh so fancy and that I can Support my sport... Really? Am I supporting my sport? Doesn't really look like it. I went to the National Development Program link included in the email, browsed around and found nothing regarding gravity.

According to the "Supported Riders" Section: "USA Cycling maintains development programs across many levels and disciplines of the sport including: men’s and women’s (U25) road programs, men’s and women’s junior road programs (both 15-16 and 17-18 age divisions), men’s and women’s mountain bike (U25), endurance and sprint track programs, men’s and women’s BMX development camp programs as well as a regional development camp system." So nothing for gravity, unless USAC is footing the bill to Betterride and those regional camps, so I should be able to attend those, right? I'm not being developed. Maybe we as gravity racers are just soooooo damn good, and we know we are , that we don't need their silly support

I looked in the riders list, couldn't find a single person that went to Worlds for gravity, not a junior, not a Pro, nothing. I even looked for Barry Nobles because he's a AA BMX Pro that also went to Worlds, couldn't find him. So who am I supporting?

Another thought, why do I have an ABA membership if if USAC is developing BMX racers, shouldn't my BMX license support BMX and my MTB license support MTB?

Someone call the whambulance.

As the father of a young DH racer, and new to the bike race scene, I have minimal experience with this whole USAC deal. So, an outsiders and newbies point of view: It was more than apparent at last years US Nats (and a bit at the previous year) that the gravity scene is simply an annoyance to USAC, and to some of the xc crowd. There seems to be an overall lack of respect from USAC, and some xc'ers, toward the gravity scene. Yes, there are many individual exceptions. But there is certainly an overall disdain toward DH. For example: It was announced "DH and XC awards will be held at whatever time". Everyone gathered around, DHers and XCers, family and friends, many assuming that DH awards would be up first. Not the case, xc first. OK, so the DH crowd hangs out and cheers for the xc winners, giving them their due respect. xc awards completed, another announcement "DH awards will begin in ?xx? minutes". I guess someone figured the xc folks needed some time to clear out, and they did. OK, not a big deal some might say. Probably not, but this smacks of disrespect. Not only for the DH racers that endured, and cheered during, the hour-long xc awards, but more importantly to the parents, family and friends, waiting to cheer on their DHers. There were lots of folks in the crowd wondering and saying "WTF?". I was saying "what the fuck?" When I heard that the xc and DH Nats would not be combined this year I thought "hell yes!, why not?" Again, before someone tears me a new one, this is an outsiders view of this deal. I'm not saying this disrespect is coming from the xc racers themselves, but it is there and it is coming form somewhere. Maybe the two disciplines are different enough that they both deserve their own venues and their own organizations.

@sylentk: UCI points aside, i would say that you're right...insurance provided by usac is one of the major benefits for race promoters.

for new/smaller events, it seems reasonable that having the national governing body tied to your race would give it some instant credibility. for gravity-only events, however, having the USAC label on a race these days may hurt more than help, but who knows.

bstens wrote: Turman,

I made a post in the Nationals thread commenting on that. Funny, I was hoping to hear a little more of your thoughts.


So I juts received my USAC License Renewal email, apparently it is More than just a racing license ooohh so fancy and that I can Support my sport... Really? Am I supporting my sport? Doesn't really look like it. I went to the National Development Program link included in the email, browsed around and found nothing regarding gravity.

According to the "Supported Riders" Section: "USA Cycling maintains development programs across many levels and disciplines of the sport including: men’s and women’s (U25) road programs, men’s and women’s junior road programs (both 15-16 and 17-18 age divisions), men’s and women’s mountain bike (U25), endurance and sprint track programs, men’s and women’s BMX development camp programs as well as a regional development camp system." So nothing for gravity, unless USAC is footing the bill to Betterride and those regional camps, so I should be able to attend those, right? I'm not being developed. Maybe we as gravity racers are just soooooo damn good, and we know we are , that we don't need their silly support

I looked in the riders list, couldn't find a single person that went to Worlds for gravity, not a junior, not a Pro, nothing. I even looked for Barry Nobles because he's a AA BMX Pro that also went to Worlds, couldn't find him. So who am I supporting?

Another thought, why do I have an ABA membership if if USAC is developing BMX racers, shouldn't my BMX license support BMX and my MTB license support MTB?

Someone call the whambulance.

In the email they mention that the development camps support FIVE disciplines, which got me thinking:

1. Road
2. XC
3. Cyclocross
4. Track
5. BMX?

Gravity?

Just guessing those are the 5? Not really sure as I haven't dug into it more.

bturman wrote: In the email they mention that the development camps support FIVE disciplines, which got me thinking:

1. Road
2. XC
3. Cyclocross
4. Track
5. BMX?

Gravity?

Just guessing those are the 5? Not really sure as I haven't dug into it more.

I read into it. It is only BMX, XC, Road, Track, CX... Maybe gravity really is the bastard child of the cycling world.

USAC funding goes solely to road, track, xc and bmx.

The long and short of it is that all Olympic affiliated governing bodies in the US can only use their cash to support Olympic disciplines.

There is no revenue stream available for USAC to fund anything regarding gravity racing. They literally can NOT spend development money of gravity. The very vast majority of membership fees go to cover their operating expenses in Colorado Springs.

http://www.usacycling.org/corporate sponsors/

USACDF covers athletic discretionary funds for non-olympic events like CX, but once again, gravity racing doesn't fall under the purview of the established development programs aligned with olympic events. CX is wedged in with "men's endurance".
It isn't a very complicated system. Gravity racing can't legally get support from the 'feds, period.

The USAC 2009 annual report is available here

Yes, we need USAC affiliation for select events for UCI purposes, but there is not and has not ever been an incentive for domestic gravity events to be sanctioned by USAC. All we need from the feds is a UCI national championship per UCI rules.
The rules stipulate at "gated" championship. That means it can be DS. If we end up having a national gravity championship there isn't a chance in hell it'll have 4x.

F@ck USAC is my stance!!!

dudes - not sure why all the bashing of USAC? Speaking solely from a business point of view, it just makes sense to cater their product to meet the needs of the majority of their members. Of course they concentrate their resources on on the true discipline of MTB racing - namely XC.
I know this fact will make people angry, but DH and AM are still in the 'fad' stage of their growth. Yes, they are fun! But they are are a distinct minority of the membership. One thing can be said of USAC - they knows their bidness model!

bike4christ wrote: dudes - not sure why all the bashing of USAC? Speaking solely from a business point of view, it just makes sense to cater their product to meet the needs of the majority of their members. Of course they concentrate their resources on on the true discipline of MTB racing - namely XC.
I know this fact will make people angry, but DH and AM are still in the 'fad' stage of their growth. Yes, they are fun! But they are are a distinct minority of the membership. One thing can be said of USAC - they knows their bidness model!

If gravity is such a "fad", then they can do without us. We'll take this wagon to the top of the mountain without them.

Any news on where DH Nats will be hosted in 2011?

We have the XC/ST/SD program here in Sun Valley. We don't have a DH course, but the resort is in discussions with Gravity Logic. We COULD be prepared to host DH Nats in 2012 if we build in 2011. That is the scenario I am hoping for. I wish we could host a full program in 2011, but we have no DH track... Chimp

Every year I wish I could go without a USAC membership, but every year I give in because there is no real choice, especially in the Colorado Region. 95% of the worthwhile races still require a membership.

As far as a unified standard points system goes, the ski racing world has already figured this out for us 60 something years ago. A unified points system like used in Alpine Skiing would be perfect, they designed their system around the same perimeters that we see with DH tracks and races, Alpine ski races are very similar to DH races. If it were ever adopted by the UCI and across the globe then we would be able to compare ourselves and rank ourselves not only nationally but against anyone anywhere in the world. The points system could be used as a qualification standard at many levels as well, for national champs, world cups, world champs etc. In the ski world, your "points" are what qualify you to be able to compete at higher level events. The better the competition is at a particular race (high ranked, low point racers) the better the opportunity to score well and improve your rank.

http://www.fwskiing.us/Competition/Competitor_Points.htm

The trick would be to organize a new governing body in the US where membership actually supports the Gravity athlete and run the rankings off a points system like this. If we were able to make it work in the US it would only be a matter of time before other countries jumped onboard, and eventually the UCI would have to start recognizing it.

bike4christ wrote: dudes - not sure why all the bashing of USAC? Speaking solely from a business point of view, it just makes sense to cater their product to meet the needs of the majority of their members. Of course they concentrate their resources on on the true discipline of MTB racing - namely XC.
I know this fact will make people angry, but DH and AM are still in the 'fad' stage of their growth. Yes, they are fun! But they are are a distinct minority of the membership. One thing can be said of USAC - they knows their bidness model!

The Fad you call DH/AM is one of the most marketable and exciting sectors of mountain biking, and the XC world is definitely benefiting off of what they offer to the cycling world. What percentage of all product adds and promotion feature a DH/AM scene?

Gravity should still see a corresponding percentage of support to memberships. If we're 5% of memberships at USAC then we should see 5% return in support for our worlds team, development camps etc. There are at least a few thousand gravity specific riders registered with USAC at $75 a membership. Lets say there are 3, 000, thats $225,000 a year that USAC is going to lose forever if they don't shape up, because its only a matter of time before someone steps up and starts a new national governing body that will support Gravity riders. Doesn't sound like good business to me.

Its not all fun and games for the CX guys either apparently. The CX dudes are gnarly guys, we're gnarly guys; they like punk music and tattoos, so do we (huge assumptions here) it'd be sick as eff to get a CX / gravity series. Oh dreams....

"Gravity should still see a corresponding percentage of support to memberships. If we're 5% of memberships at USAC then we should see 5% return in support for our worlds team, development camps etc."

mike is right on the money.

its easy to say fad.
i understand that.
lets look at the whole of this sport and see where there is potential growth.
both in exposure and sales, and culture, and marketability.

its the dh, the slopestyle, and the enduro.
rather than live in the olympic committee dictated present, lets look forward.
USAC is not doing that. their actions are dictated by the money that flows to them.

our actions are dictated by the love of MTB.
it only makes sense for us to drive hard in the direction we wish to see our sport take.
its not a bash to the USAC,
Its a call to action for regional race promoters, dh racers, dual slalom course builders,
and the mtv, espn, sports media.
we want fun, exciting, relevant, competitive, progressive and accesible racing and competition.
we are going somewhere new, fresh, young and profitable.
whos in!?

Chimp wrote: Any news on where DH Nats will be hosted in 2011?

We have the XC/ST/SD program here in Sun Valley. We don't have a DH course, but the resort is in discussions with Gravity Logic. We COULD be prepared to host DH Nats in 2012 if we build in 2011. That is the scenario I am hoping for. I wish we could host a full program in 2011, but we have no DH track... Chimp

chimp (cylus?)-

check out the nats thread here:

nats thread

-julian

Mike Buell...
"...if they don't shape up, because its only a matter of time before someone steps up and starts a new national governing body that will support Gravity riders." You nailed it dude!!

I hope for this day. Somehow USAC will still be involved I think. Just like in BMX. The ABA runs the event, but It's still called the USAC National Championships.

Every year I feel that the $60.00 I pay for my "membership" goes for nothing. I'd like to think I'm getting some value for my money. But in USAC, I'm not. I have to have this membership to race at events because of my classification. It just stinks. USAC is doing nothing more than funneling our money into someone's else's pockets and it isn't benefiting the gravity scene in anyway that I can see.

A few years ago, the ABA and Eric Carter were working on some sort of National sanctioning body for MTB Gravity. For some reason, for which I have no information about the idea died out and nothing has been pursued since that I know of.

I hope someone will pick up the idea and run with it. until then. Ride on!

I remember several years ago I got my USAC coaching license. I was pretty psyched to get it and immediately emailed the guy who was in charge of the coaching program. I cant remember his name right now. Anyways I sent him an email about how I was interested in learning more about coaching gravity athletes and wanted to know if he could give me any information or even if they had plans to offer some courses on the subject. Well the next day I got a response to the email and he answered my questions, which I thought were pretty legitimate, with a "no". That was it., just a no. That's when I finally realized USAC doesn't give a crap about gravity riders.

@sylentk:...I think its a UCI requirement for the federations to issue the license with a Insurance...

@bike4christ....DH/AM/FR is not in a "FAD" stage at all...put some more money into it and I believe will overcome XC racing...Kids now days they rather go DH'ng than XC'n....and totallly agree on @Mike Buell comment.

Just to give you guys a look from overseas....we run under the same situation, DH does not "exists" within our federation, we do not get any support from the federation whatsoever...they are mainly focussed on Road...actually I still remember the words on the president couples of years ago..."...I'm comming into the federation to re-install the real cycling discipline...Road racing..."

That comment created some friction on all the people here....cause like all of you point out, DH is a more visible sport, and definetly XC get a lot of benefit off from it, since, to be honest, its too boring to go and watch a XC race and you will see the guys in one spot and that's it...while in DH you get to see them on the same spot various times.

And now that I'm putting together the country's DH Cup, i said, f$#^k the federation and get this thing going 'cause they don't return much of the investment we as organizers have to pay them...and not even talking about getting the freaking license...

So, quoting on Spoomer...."for new/smaller events, it seems reasonable that having the national governing body tied to your race would give it some instant credibility. for gravity-only events, however, having the USAC label on a race these days may hurt more than help, but who knows..." I definetly give props to go to non-federation races when they are all gravity related...

bstens wrote: Turman,

I made a post in the Nationals thread commenting on that. Funny, I was hoping to hear a little more of your thoughts.


So I juts received my USAC License Renewal email, apparently it is More than just a racing license ooohh so fancy and that I can Support my sport... Really? Am I supporting my sport? Doesn't really look like it. I went to the National Development Program link included in the email, browsed around and found nothing regarding gravity.

According to the "Supported Riders" Section: "USA Cycling maintains development programs across many levels and disciplines of the sport including: men’s and women’s (U25) road programs, men’s and women’s junior road programs (both 15-16 and 17-18 age divisions), men’s and women’s mountain bike (U25), endurance and sprint track programs, men’s and women’s BMX development camp programs as well as a regional development camp system." So nothing for gravity, unless USAC is footing the bill to Betterride and those regional camps, so I should be able to attend those, right? I'm not being developed. Maybe we as gravity racers are just soooooo damn good, and we know we are , that we don't need their silly support

I looked in the riders list, couldn't find a single person that went to Worlds for gravity, not a junior, not a Pro, nothing. I even looked for Barry Nobles because he's a AA BMX Pro that also went to Worlds, couldn't find him. So who am I supporting?

Another thought, why do I have an ABA membership if if USAC is developing BMX racers, shouldn't my BMX license support BMX and my MTB license support MTB?

Someone call the whambulance.

bturman wrote: In the email they mention that the development camps support FIVE disciplines, which got me thinking:

1. Road
2. XC
3. Cyclocross
4. Track
5. BMX?

Gravity?

Just guessing those are the 5? Not really sure as I haven't dug into it more.

bstens wrote: I read into it. It is only BMX, XC, Road, Track, CX... Maybe gravity really is the bastard child of the cycling world.

The best part about that is that gravity is what created our sport back in the 70's! just ask every person in the MTB hall of fame. the USAC has to recognize that if nothing else.

..."The trick would be to organize a new governing body in the US where membership actually supports the Gravity athlete and run the rankings off a points system like this. If we were able to make it work in the US it would only be a matter of time before other countries jumped onboard, and eventually the UCI would have to start recognizing it. ...."


Michael my man, you hit the nail perfect with this.....