The Patent Thread - New and Wild MTB Inventions

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gregberry

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2/23/2017 2:22 PM

Perhaps this is why the new Enduro's have a bigger seat tube that takes a 38.5 clamp and are currently shimming their 30.9 command posts. At the Enduro launch before it went public last year, they did hint to me that there was something new coming for this bigger seat tube but nothing further.

bturman

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2/23/2017 2:33 PM

gregberry wrote:

Perhaps this is why the new Enduro's have a bigger seat tube that takes a 38.5 clamp and are currently shimming their 30.9 command posts. At the Enduro launch before it went public last year, they did hint to me that there was something new coming for this bigger seat tube but nothing further.

Good guess

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chup29

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2/23/2017 3:24 PM

im a little scared for my future kids (or lack of) due to the maiming speed that the current command post returns to full extension. Imagine if this failed and the nose of your saddle speared you in the gonads, severing your johnson at the base or achieved unwanted full penetration on your lady bits. would that be considered rape? horrible jokes aside, this is exactly what i want in a dropper post but i just wish it came from a company that you know... builds a better one....

sideshow

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2/23/2017 6:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/23/2017 6:33 PM

{Regarding the angler dropper post}

First idea seems reasonable, with a limit screw providing the "desired angle" at the top and bottom.
The second one...eh, I have enough of a problem with the fore and aft position for my seat, forget about the whole thing levering back and worth that much.

Neat idea, always cool to see innovation, but I've never once heard or thought [to myself or otherwise] that this is something needed.

Is this something I'm just not fussed about, yet other people actually find to be a nuisance?

ballr

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2/23/2017 8:13 PM

Keen-eyed observers could have seen this in the flesh last year at Crankworx, if they knew where to look. Same with new Spesh tires.

JLutzy

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2/23/2017 10:22 PM

I really like that specialised are trying to improve on the dropper post but my thoughts are that Droppers are already a noticeable weight on your bike. I Wonder how much more this one will weigh for the sake of a saddle angle thats down and out the way. Anyway I sure some people will love this idea.

Primoz

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2/23/2017 10:29 PM

Not that much, it's all contained in the head. What I would like to see is the proliferation of 34 mm posts. This would increase the bushing diameter and make for a stiffer, longer lasting post. The tube walls could also be thinner, which would then not impact the weight of the post.

Yuroshek

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2/24/2017 8:20 AM

Do we really need a dropper that changes the angle of the seat when lowered so it looks cool? How much faster will it make you? How much more time will it take to set up said dropper? Its just another thing to break. Also 1 more thing for mechanics to learn how to fix. As the bicycle industry is getting more involved and taking more knowledge to work on these bikes I dont see their pay going up. The repairs are not as simple anymore and now you are doing much harder work for the same hourly wage.

Whattheheel

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2/24/2017 8:31 AM

I like you. *goes to show his boss this post*

Where the white women at?

bturman

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3/16/2017 12:00 PM

Shimano is working on shiftable narrow/wide chainrings:







USPTO Application # 20170066500 by Shimano Inc: Bicycle sprocket and multiple bicycle sprocket assembly

A bicycle sprocket has a sprocket main body, a plurality of teeth disposed on the sprocket main body, and at least one shifting area. The teeth include at least one first tooth having a first maximum axial width and at least one second tooth having a second maximum axial width. The first maximum axial width is larger than the second maximum axial width. The first tooth is configured to engage with an outer link plate of a chain. The second tooth is configured to engage...

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bturman

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3/16/2017 12:04 PM

Why not reverse the thinking? Chains with a narrow/wide inner profile are also in the works by Shimano:







USPTO Application # 20170067535 by Shimano Inc: Bicycle chain

A bicycle chain comprises a first outer link plate, a second outer link plate, and an axial protuberance protruding. The first outer link plate comprises a first end portion, a second end portion, and a first intermediate portion. The second outer link plate comprises a third end portion, a fourth end portion, and a second intermediate portion. The axial protuberance protrudes from a first inner surface of the first intermediate portion in an axial direction. The second...

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bturman

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3/16/2017 12:08 PM

Praxis Works to get into the derailleur game? This one is pretty interesting!









USPTO Application # 20170066501 by Praxis Works Llc: Belt-aligned derailleur

A derailleur may include an electric motor configured to drive a gear assembly to pivot a rigid case around the B knuckle of the derailleur. A chain tensioner-supporting P knuckle of the derailleur may be pivotably connected to the rigid case. The P knuckle may be held substantially parallel to an associated bicycle frame by a belt that is fixed to the B knuckle shaft and passes around the P knuckle shaft. A belt tensioner may be provided between the B knuckle and P knuckle shafts.

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big bear

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3/16/2017 3:42 PM

Beating a dead horse with the 2x

zooey

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3/16/2017 3:58 PM

big bear wrote:

Beating a dead horse with the 2x

They could just be marketing it wrong.

2x is an option for the ones that are discerning enough to demand a better "unsprung to sprung weight ratio", moving weight off the rear axle to a favorable low and central location, to significantly improve rear suspension sensitivity.

Some actually switched to 1x to avoid chain drops, but if that's addressed, they might just go back, and consider new high tech options like XT Di2.

Seems like only a small minority of frame makers bothered to ditch FD compatibility entirely, like Whyte, utilizing the space to optimize frame and pivot dimensions. This was one of the possible advantages of 1x, that wasn't leveraged enough. Did you buy such a frame?

erik2k10

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3/16/2017 6:01 PM

Having a narrow-wide chain might be good enough to minimize the compression needed for the clutch in today's derailleurs. Which for most bikes would increase the small bump sensitivity.

zooey

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3/16/2017 6:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/16/2017 6:59 PM

erik2k10 wrote:

Having a narrow-wide chain might be good enough to minimize the compression needed for the clutch in today's derailleurs. Which for most bikes would increase the small bump sensitivity.

True, reducing the clutch strength would increase rear susp sensitivity.

Matching the chain gaps with the teeth width removes lateral slack in the chain. Going from the normal narrow-wide chain to a chain that makes the gap between outer plates uniform in width with the inner plates, allows it to have this benefit on normal width cogs, pulleys and chainrings. It's the chain derailing that causes the chain drop, which tends to be from the chain being forced sideways. With less lateral slack, I can see what you're saying, and bikes are coming with nice molded chainstay guides anyways.

sideshow

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3/16/2017 7:34 PM

Pretending that the 2x set up is for the current cassettes, can you imaaaagine the things you could climb up with a 22/52!?!?!?! Not even kidding...you'd never have to hike-a-bike ever again.

Primoz

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3/16/2017 10:49 PM

You would, you wouldn't have anywhere near the balance and momentum needed to ride up obstacles with a 22/52. Riding technical uphills is not a low gear ratio game, it's a 'you need enough power and stamina to not use the granny gear to have enough speed' game. Even a 22/32, based on my experience, is often not a high gear enough and you get hung up on stuff.

As for the weight, Shimano's 11-40 XTR cassette weighs 327 grams. Sram's 10-42 XX1 cassette supposedly weighs 268 g. The 12spd Eagle XX1 cassette weighs 354 g. I don't think there's much of a benefit in unsprung weight by running a 2x system. Not when you take into account the higher overall weight due to an additional front sprocket, derailleur, shifter, etc. and when you see, the difference is ~100 g, if at all (XT cassettes are much heavier). After all running a DH casing tire will be a bigger difference compared to a thinner single ply tire.

bill.handebo

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3/17/2017 7:10 PM

erik2k10 wrote:

Having a narrow-wide chain might be good enough to minimize the compression needed for the clutch in today's derailleurs. Which for most bikes would increase the small bump sensitivity.

This is why I dont even put the clutch in the "on" position!. Even gives you a lighter shifter lever!

Roots_rider

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3/18/2017 1:26 PM

sideshow wrote:

Pretending that the 2x set up is for the current cassettes, can you imaaaagine the things you could climb up with a 22/52!?!?!?! Not even kidding...you'd never have to hike-a-bike ever again.

Got a customer running 24/50 eagle 1x on a fatbike at the moment. Thing is fricken crazy. She's doing it as a rehab mechanism for an Achilles injury.

Roots_rider

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3/18/2017 1:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/19/2017 5:44 PM

erik2k10 wrote:

Having a narrow-wide chain might be good enough to minimize the compression needed for the clutch in today's derailleurs. Which for most bikes would increase the small bump sensitivity.

bill.handebo wrote:

This is why I dont even put the clutch in the "on" position!. Even gives you a lighter shifter lever!

If you're running shimano, you can dial it in by turning the clutch tension down to where you like. Have less tension pulling on the suspension, but still keep the cage from being too floppy.

LLLLL

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3/21/2017 4:23 AM

erik2k10 wrote:

Having a narrow-wide chain might be good enough to minimize the compression needed for the clutch in today's derailleurs. Which for most bikes would increase the small bump sensitivity.

Depends if the narrow bits are external metal adding weight, then the clutch tension will need to be increased to compensate...

Primoz

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3/21/2017 10:15 AM

Not external, it's a different stamping process. But maybe it'd make sense to just curve the outer plate so it narrows in the middle, you still need more material than for a flat plate, but less than for a thicker plate.

Though, how will that work with shifting ramps?

This might be just a patent covering the possibility with no intention of actually making a chain like this. Just to cover their bases.

bturman

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6/21/2017 2:11 PM

Shimano and SRAM are at it again, each with their own way of moving the front chainring in an axial direction in order to improve the chainline on 1X drivetrains.





USPTO Application # 20170167542 by Shimano Inc: Bicycle crank assembly

"Among bicycles equipped with a single front sprocket and a plurality of rear sprockets, gear shifting has been conventionally carried out by operation of a rear derailleur. When a gear shifting operation is performed by operation of the rear derailleur, chances are that a chain is disposed in an oblique position relative to the faces of the front sprocket while being wound around the front sprocket and any of the rear sprockets. When the chain is disposed in an oblique position while being wound around the front sprocket and any of the rear sprockets, it is concerned that the chain may be disengaged from the front sprocket. In light of this concern, a conventional construction has been proposed for making the chain unlikely to be disengaged from the front sprocket. In this conventional construction, the front sprocket is configured to be movable in an axial direction arranged in parallel to a rotational center axis whereby the chain is unlikely to be disposed in an extremely oblique position."

"A bicycle crank assembly includes a sprocket having a rotational center axis, a crank, a crank axle and a slide mechanism. The crank axle is attached to the crank and includes an internal space. The slide mechanism is configured to displace the sprocket relatively to the crank in an axial direction parallel to the rotational center axis. At least part of the slide mechanism is disposed in the internal space of the crank axle."

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USPTO Application # 20170167590 by Sram Deutschland Gmbh: Chainring

"Attempts are often made to avoid problematic shifting under load at the front chainring. Instead of this shiftin under load coverage of as much as possible of the gear spectrum is achieved by means of a correspondingly developed rear multiple sprocket arrangement. A front single chainring together with a high number of eleven or twelve rear sprockets can achieves good coverage. On account of the high number of axially adjacent sprockets on the rear wheel, the width of the multiple sprocket arrangement is certainly enlarged. The chain that meshes with the chainring is also axially secured on the front chainring by means of the axially secured single chainring. On the rear wheel, however, the chain has to overcome a section of several centimetres when shifting from the smallest to the largest sprocket in the axial direction. This increasingly results in the chain running at an angle (also called skew) which has a negative effect on the efficiency, the wear susceptibility, and the noise development of the drive.

Possible solutions which deal with this problem are known from the prior art. Axially displaceable single chainrings which are to adapt to the chain line are thus provided."

"A chainring includes a first chainring segment and a second chainring segment for a chainring arrangement of a bicycle. Further provided is a chainring arrangement and a drive arrangement for a bicycle with at least one chainring. The segmented chainring arrangement is particularly suitable for bicycles with only one front chainring."

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bturman

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7/26/2017 11:57 AM

Shimano continues to push ahead with development/patents on electric dropper posts:



USPTO Application # 20170203814 by Shimano, Inc. - Electrical bicycle operating system, electrical derailleur, and electrical seatpost assembly

An electrical bicycle operating system comprises a first switch to generate a first transmission control signal, a second switch to generate a second transmission control signal, and a control unit to electrically operate at least one of an electrical bicycle seatpost assembly, an electrical suspension, and a driving unit configured to output an assist force when both the first switch and the second switch are operated concurrently.

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bturman

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7/26/2017 12:04 PM

Here's an interesting chain design from Shimano that would, in theory, provide similar chain retention to a narrow/wide chainring:







USPTO Application # 20170191547 by Shimano, Inc. - Bicycle chain

According to a first aspect of the invention the inner link plate has a longitudinal centerline defining a longitudinal direction and comprising a first inner-link end portion including a first inner-link opening having a first inner-link center axis, a second inner-link end portion including a second inner-link opening having a second inner-link center axis parallel to the first inner-link center axis, and a first inner-link intermediate portion interconnecting the first inner-link end portion and the second inner-link end portion, wherein the first inner-link end portion has an extended edge portion extending to be away from the second inner-link end portion in the longitudinal direction.

One potential advantage of such a configuration is that the extended edge portion decreases the gap between an interior section of the chain and a sprocket tooth when a pair of outer link plates is mated with the sprocket tooth. Therefore, the axial movement of the chain about the sprocket tooth is reduced, thereby decreasing the likelihood of the chain disengaging from the sprocket. As a result, chain operation is improved.

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